Eagle Scout Extension for new 2019 Scouts

[Sentinel947]

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@PACAN, how is that any different from a bunch of boys who know Scouting's ideals before their troop is registered? Two years ago, if a bunch of boys started a troop this way, of course you'd tell them to date their scout rank from the day the charter was signed!
 

They want her to be credited for an Eagle project, and presumably all of her other requirements she "completed" from before girls were eligible for Boy Scouts. 

[scotteg83]

5 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

They want her to be credited for an Eagle project, and presumably all of her other requirements she "completed" from before girls were eligible for Boy Scouts. 

PACAN was talking about Scout Rank in one day, not getting credit for higher ranks requirements being done before a scout.

[qwazse]

Just now, Sentinel947 said:

They want her to be credited for an Eagle project, and presumably all of her other requirements she "completed" from before girls were eligible for Boy Scouts. 

I would like them to do that too. But lots of scouters are concerned that such charity would be open for corruption. So, we have the comprise that we do. The clock doesn't start until Feb 1 under everyone's watchful gaze, and if they are "all that" we believe they will cheerfully prove it (again) given the time to do so. Fine.

But, if the girls understood and swore to the ideals on Jan 31, -unless someone tells me they have some kind of selective amnesia, I'm fine with putting at Scout Rank on Feb 1.

[PACAN]

Yes.  My thought is that Seems unlikely that the requirements done "since a scout" could have been correctly done in a couple of hours after midnight since the cyberchip requires a little more effort.  

I heard that units finished all but the PT 30 day requirements for Tenderfoot on their Saturday campout.  Yeech!

[Jameson76]

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

They want her to be credited for an Eagle project, and presumably all of her other requirements she "completed" from before girls were eligible for Boy Scouts. 

 

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

I would like them to do that too.

@qwazse Can you explain why you would want to let someone who was not a member of the Scout organization earn ranks within the Scout organization for their life experiences?

[mashmaster]

23 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Yes.  My thought is that Seems unlikely that the requirements done "since a scout" could have been correctly done in a couple of hours after midnight since the cyberchip requires a little more effort.  

I heard that units finished all but the PT 30 day requirements for Tenderfoot on their Saturday campout.  Yeech!

This is kinda my point where I am right now.  A lot of these new troops in my small sampling of about 6 have very inexperienced leaders in BSA training/experience.  They have come over from other programs and all are solely focused on advancement and merit badges.  There is the race to be FIRST.  That will slow down when troops run out of firsts to do.

Before the majority of new troops were started with seasoned scouters and scouts of varied experience.  I think it will end over time and normalize like previous troops.  My one hope is that all these new leaders take high quality IOLS training in person from experienced scouters and not just watch it online.

There was a parade this weekend here in Texas and I personally observed many of the new troops being run like a cub scout packs and flags being displayed improperly.  just more experience.

[shortridge]

11 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

My one hope is that all these new leaders take high quality IOLS training in person from experienced scouters and not just watch it online.

 

IOLS isn’t online.

[TAHAWK]

39 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

 

@qwazse Can you explain why you would want to let someone who was not a member of the Scout organization earn ranks within the Scout organization for their life experiences?

BSA was founded as an educational organization.  Advancement (FKA "Recognition") is designed to encourage learning.  Advancement is not an official objective of Scouting or Scouts BSA, although it is often confused as an objective.

Please explain why you would want to prevent a youth from having the opportunity to learn to be a good person and good citizen, sound in mind and body solely because they were not a registered member of Scouts  BSA.  Thank you.  

[shortridge]

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

Yes.  My thought is that Seems unlikely that the requirements done "since a scout" could have been correctly done in a couple of hours after midnight since the cyberchip requires a little more effort.  

I heard that units finished all but the PT 30 day requirements for Tenderfoot on their Saturday campout.  Yeech!

1. The only part of the Cyber Chip that requires any effort is the teaching requirement. The Chip is a good tool to get kids and parents talking about safety, but it’s a joke to earn.

2. Why wouldn’t an enthusiastic Scout who has read the Handbook and practiced in advance be able to knock off all the Tenderfoot requirements during the course of a weekend campout? Here are the requirements: https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Tenderfoot_rank. The most time-consuming parts are woods tools and the service project. 

What a lot of people seem to forget is that we don’t require that a skill or knowledge be learned within the Scouting program. I’m not going to require an experienced backpacker to sit through my demonstration on packing a backpack. If they come to me and show that they know it and can do it, I’ll sign it off.

Quite a few of these new Scouts have been camping and hiking for years. They have staffed summer camp and run FYC programs - actually teaching the very skills they must now get signed off - and backpacked stretches of the AT.

T-2-FC is outdoors 101. They must still demonstrate that they can do it - but actually doing it is child’s play.

Some of these new patrols and troops have been meeting informally for months and learning these skills on their own.  Not because they want to be “first,” but because they want to be Scouts.

Unless you were there watching an adult pencil-whip Scouts through the requirements without actually doing them, let’s behave a little more Scoutlike toward our fellow Scouts and not accuse them of cheating, hmm?

Edited February 6, 2019 by shortridge

[HashTagScouts]

Also bear in mind- a 13 or 14 year old doing Scout-First class is probably going to go a whole lot faster and smoother than a 10 1/2 year old doing it.

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

 

@qwazse Can you explain why you would want to let someone who was not a member of the Scout organization earn ranks within the Scout organization for their life experiences?

I'm a bit simple minded when it comes to these things.

1) If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it most likely is. A thorough board of review should settle the matter.

2) It's probably just me, but I think the Eagle award is tarnished a little more anytime we fail to recognize someone who has accomplished what we  require Eagles to accomplish.

3) Awarding ranks retroactively (all the way back to the 90s, if we have to) would take the wind out of the sails of anyone who's just in it to be 1st girl Eagle.

On the flip side, I get how hard it is to trust somebody who disregards identity rules for the sake of one more smile. So I can accept being stuck with compromises.

[Chadamus]

2 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Please explain why you would want to prevent a youth from having the opportunity to learn to be a good person and good citizen, sound in mind and body solely because they were not a registered member of Scouts  BSA.  Thank you.  

Since we're answering for one another...

TAHAWK, surely you've read enough of Jameson76's posts on this forum to realize he would not imply such.

😒

Rank requirements on this subject are clear.

[Jameson76]

2 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

BSA was founded as an educational organization.  Advancement (FKA "Recognition") is designed to encourage learning.  Advancement is not an official objective of Scouting or Scouts BSA, although it is often confused as an objective.

Please explain why you would want to prevent a youth from having the opportunity to learn to be a good person and good citizen, sound in mind and body solely because they were not a registered member of Scouts  BSA.  Thank you.  

I am not advocating preventing anyone from learning anything.

What a small group of the newly joined members (one in particular) want to do is get the recognition from their time as they were tagging along with relatives.  They basically want to be awarded ranks from the time before they joined the now Scouts BSA program.  While they no doubt benefited from their experience, they were not in fact members of the organization.  If they do join, they will need to adhere to all advancement guidelines, including time between ranks, camping nights as a member, merit badges requirements as a member, and holding positions of responsibility as a member.

No life experience cutting of the corners.  Use the extension, if you want to be part of the program, you need to be a part of the whole program.  All the rules and regulations, not just the ones you sort of feel like adhering to.

[Jameson76]

16 minutes ago, Chadamus said:

Since we're answering for one another...

TAHAWK, surely you've read enough of Jameson76's posts on this forum to realize he would not imply such.

😒

Rank requirements on this subject are clear.

Absolutely.  Youth are free to learn all they would like in whatever forum they may want.

For rank requirement from the time the youth is eligible to join, they need to follow all the requirements.  Getting awarded ranks from the now Scouts BSA organization within the BSA will (should??) require them to follow all time and process needs.

[mashmaster]

3 hours ago, shortridge said:

IOLS isn’t online.

I am happy to hear that