New girls in Scouting

[Ranman328]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 10:36 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I already see  packs making exceptions and changing requirements. Biggest one is the Whittling Chip requirements. It specifically states "Pocketknife," not "plastic cutlery knife" not "imitation wooden knife", and not "popsicle sticks." Irks me to no end that I need to redo Whitting Chip with my Webelos since they didn't really earn it and the previous DL thought they were "too dangerous"

 

On a side note, I am also culpable in changing the requirement. I had folks at day camp teaching Whittling Chip with wood carving knives from Paul's Supplies https://pauls-supplies.myshopify.com/collections/knives/products/carving-knife which is technically a fixed blade, not a pocket knife. But at least it was a real knife.

I remember those days!  I gave all my then Bears a wood knife they had to put together.  We used this to practice opening and closing the blade and then I gave them all the real thing and we went live.  I had 16 in my Den and was lucky no one ever cut themselves. The funny thing is, BSA does not have a rule against fixed blade or sheath knives.  I allow sheath knives no longer than 4 inches in my troop.  I have not had any scouts cut themselves.  Folding knives on the other hand is a different story.  It is sad that people are changing the requirements and watering down the program. 

I just recently had to tell several of my scouts that they couldn't deliver mulch using a wheel barrel.  They are 12 and according to the new Guide to Safe Scouting, scouts under 14 are not allowed to use Wheel Barrels or wagons.  They can use an axe, hatchet, knife, fire and propane stoves but not a wheel barrel.  Strange.

[Eagle1993]

50,093 girls are now registered 

5,994 Lions;  8,990 Tigers; 19,362 Wolves and Bears; 15,747 Webelos.

Pace slowed a bit this week. I’ll be curious to see more October numbers.  

[sst3rd]

I've just finished a year of mentorship with a new(er) scoutmaster of a recharged troop (asked to assist by the council). Their associated pack always has successful "school nights for scouting) recruitment programs. They are assigned two elementary schools exclusively. The last weekly pack meeting (where all dens meet, but separately), there are now lots of girls. They mix them in with the boys in the same dens. They know it's not correct, but they simply don't have enough leaders, and the new parents aren't volunteering. And they don't want to turn the new cubs away. I asked the scoutmaster what are the plans for when the girl scouts are ready for the troop. She says there are no plans she's aware of. She wants the troop to remain boys only as does the other troop leaders and parents. I suggested strongly that they have a plan. If anything, know of the nearest girl scouts bsa troop to point them to. But the other problem is that they also have brotherss in the pack, and they expect everyone will be graduating to the troop when the time comes. Yeah, right.

 

Oh well. My mentorship has come to a close. Until next time America.

 

sst3rd

[awanatech]

46 minutes ago, sst3rd said:

I've just finished a year of mentorship with a new(er) scoutmaster of a recharged troop (asked to assist by the council). Their associated pack always has successful "school nights for scouting) recruitment programs. They are assigned two elementary schools exclusively. The last weekly pack meeting (where all dens meet, but separately), there are now lots of girls. They mix them in with the boys in the same dens. They know it's not correct, but they simply don't have enough leaders, and the new parents aren't volunteering. And they don't want to turn the new cubs away. I asked the scoutmaster what are the plans for when the girl scouts are ready for the troop. She says there are no plans she's aware of. She wants the troop to remain boys only as does the other troop leaders and parents. I suggested strongly that they have a plan. If anything, know of the nearest girl scouts bsa troop to point them to. But the other problem is that they also have brotherss in the pack, and they expect everyone will be graduating to the troop when the time comes. Yeah, right.

 

Oh well. My mentorship has come to a close. Until next time America.

 

sst3rd

It sounds like they do have a plan.  Their plan is to remain a boys only Troop.  It sounds like the Pack leaders might want to start looking for to identify a girl's Troop where they can refer the Webelos who are female.  As I see it, that isn't really an issue for the Scoutmaster.  That is more of an issue for the Cubmaster, Webelos Den Leader & Chartered Org Rep.  I am a Scoutmaster whose CO has no intention of a girls troop at this time either, but we don't have an associated Pack at this time.

[shortridge]

6 hours ago, sst3rd said:

I asked the scoutmaster what are the plans for when the girl scouts are ready for the troop. She says there are no plans she's aware of. She wants the troop to remain boys only as does the other troop leaders and parents. I suggested strongly that they have a plan.

They will have to start their own girls’ troop - it’s that simple. The existing troop will remain boys only because that’s how Scouts BSA works. They don’t have the option of taking in the girls when the leave Webelos. There could be a linked girls’ troop, but that’s not the same as what you’re discussing.

[Eagle94-A1]

The theory of staring a separate girls' troop is great. The reality is that it won't happen. The troop will become coed.  As more and more adults use to a coed Cub Scout program move into the troop, they will see no problem with being a "linked troop," which is national's codeword for coed. They will start promoting the concept, and their numbers grow and/or they get into key positions to implement the change, they will.

 

The camel's nose is already under the tent flap.

[packsaddle]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

The theory of staring a separate girls' troop is great. The reality is that it won't happen. The troop will become coed.  As more and more adults use to a coed Cub Scout program move into the troop, they will see no problem with being a "linked troop," which is national's codeword for coed. They will start promoting the concept, and their numbers grow and/or they get into key positions to implement the change, they will.

 

The camel's nose is already under the tent flap.

If our social interactions somehow determine that coed is what most of people want, then I agree. Under that situation coed is almost inevitable in time, and maybe sooner than some of us would like. Personally, I like the idea. Before these changes I heard a lot of 'wishing' from scout parents that daughters could join in with the boys as scouts, and complaints about them being excluded. My daughter felt the pain of the exclusion so I sympathized with those other parents. I've seen no problems in the explorer units I've interacted with in the past. I see no reason it won't work just as well for younger folks.

Camels, OTOH, I don't much care for.

[packsaddle]

On 10/3/2018 at 7:33 PM, Ranman328 said:

I just recently had to tell several of my scouts that they couldn't deliver mulch using a wheel barrel.  They are 12 and according to the new Guide to Safe Scouting, scouts under 14 are not allowed to use Wheel Barrels or wagons.  They can use an axe, hatchet, knife, fire and propane stoves but not a wheel barrel.  Strange.

LOL, I suspect that there will be little chance that a bunch of scouts will see how fast they can hurtle down a steep hill riding on a propane stove or hatchet.

[Eagledad]

28 minutes ago, packsaddle said:

I’ve seen no problems in the explorer units I've interacted with in the past. I see no reason it won't work just as well for younger folks.

😂 Of course it will work. The two largest troops in our district are also the least boy run and most advancement driven adult run troops. Where there is an adult will, there is an adult way.

Barry

[packsaddle]

The explorer posts were, as far as I could tell, almost completely run by the explorers, not the adults. The young women seemed to be more organized and exhibited greater leadership than the young men. I reject the notion that adults have to run these units for them to be successful.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, packsaddle said:

 Before these changes I heard a lot of 'wishing' from scout parents that daughters could join in with the boys as scouts, and complaints about them being excluded.

I was always taught it is about the boys, not parents, sisters, siblings or families. In my neck of the woods the majority of boys do not want girls in Scouting, either in a separate troop or as a "linked troop."  One adults who is all for girls in Scouting, and wants it coed, even admitted her own son is against girls in Scouting. If this was such a popular, in demand decision, why hasn't national released the MEMBERSHIP ( emphasis) survey results on the topic? Heck why don't they release all of the results from their surveys?

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

Just now, packsaddle said:

The explorer posts were, as far as I could tell, almost completely run by the explorers, not the adults. The young women seemed to be more organized and exhibited greater leadership than the young men. I reject the notion that adults have to run these units for them to be successful.

Explorers and Crews are different because of puberty. The advantage of patrol method for boys growth is gone after age 14.

My point is adults will make the program work to their desire no matter what the scouts get out of it. Those adults have been around for almost 100 years.

[packsaddle]

49 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If this was such a popular, in demand decision, why hasn't national released the MEMBERSHIP ( emphasis) survey results on the topic?

Could be they don't think it's needed, or any other of numerous other possible reasons. 

44 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

The advantage of patrol method for boys growth is gone after age 14.

Actually, I think patrol method would continue to work right up through college if we gave it a try. The young males I see of that age group, for the most part, could sure use some of those skills. But being coed or not seems irrelevant to the potential benefits of patrol method. What do you think IS the relevance?

I agree with your sentiment about adult led units. I simply think that not much would change one way or the other with coed status. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, packsaddle said:

Could be they don't think it's needed, or any other of numerous other possible reasons. 

Actually the #1 reason is it is a done deal. No way they can change it now. Besides there is enough evidence to point out that the decision was made even before the town hall meetings came out. Another thing is National may have learned from the "InstaPalm" decision: don't release the poll results if it contradicts what you plan to do anyway. 94% were either against (18%) or strongly against (78%) doing away with tenure requirements for palms.

[Eagledad]

3 hours ago, packsaddle said:

Cou

Actually, I think patrol method would continue to work right up through college if we gave it a try. The young males I see of that age group, for the most part, could sure use some of those skills. But being coed or not seems irrelevant to the potential benefits of patrol method. What do you think IS the relevance?

The instinctive nature of prepubescent boys is big picture dreamers. Patrol method forces them to practice working details. The instinctive nature of prepubescent girls is details and micro organization. Organization part of Patrol method is easy for them. 

Add to that, girls will bring in more adults without a patrol method experience. Patrol method is a dying art. History supports my theory. Webelos III is inevitable, but the girls will have fun.

Barry