Parents not getting it

[Cambridgeskip]

It was interesting to see the thread about misconceptions as I had deliberately logged on to post something.

yesterday I spent 40 minutes on the phone and my Group Scout Leader (my manager, don’t think you have an equivalent) had spent 2 hours on the phone with the mum of a scout who was having a bit of a moan.

She had various things to say but they all stemmed from the fact that her daughter has not made PL or APL yet. Her daughter is disappointed. She’s not the first and won’t be the last and in herself is not a problem. The problem is that her mum does not accept how scouts operates.

Both myself and the GSL have tried explaining that our job is not to make all the decisions of the scouts for them. We advise them, we explain what they should consider, we will give our opinion if asked. If there is a safety or discipline issue or other very good reason to do so we will over ride youth decisions.

What we won’t do is simply over rule them because they chose differently to what we would have chosen.

In this case this scout would make a perfectly good APL. She’s enthusiastic, well behaved, polite etc. And yes she could probably do a better job than at least two of my current crop of APLs.

Fact remains though that at this stage the PLC chose them and not her. 

And mum does not accept that.

Ive explained to mum that’s if I over rule every decision I disagree with there’s no point having PLs or a PLC as they wouldn’t be making decisions, it would just be me demanding that they do it my way. What would be the point?

And Mum does not accept that.

I know that BSA put more emphasis than we do on the youth led process. Do you ever get problems with parents wanting you to over rule the PLC? How do you tend to handle it?

[MattR]

I've told the parents the same thing I've told the scouts. I've asked questions as to why they think they didn't get elected. I try and keep personality issues out of it. Are they participating? Are they cheerful, friendly, and helpful? Are there other leadership options they can take on to get more experience?

Yes, I am avoiding the obvious question they have of why don't I just make a decree. If they push for that they get the boiler plate we're modeling our community. Then comes the talk about failure is just a bad attitude. I'm just happy when they can make a decision.

But for some parents it doesn't matter what I say and I suspect this is the type of person you've run into. Forty minutes on the phone over this? You get extra ice cream for that. You call that a bit of a moan? I'd hate to see a full moan. Anyway, there are no magic words. You did the best you could.

There is another situation I've seen and I don't know if this is what you ran into. There have been a couple of times the scout elected had more hat than cattle, so to say, and I just shake my head. I've also talked to the scout about how real leadership is not always the one with the patch. When the duly elected PL fails to show up or do their job, just step in. It will get noticed and the problem will eventually resolve itself.

[Drastent]

Yeah a lot of people don't seem to understand that at the end of the day, the positions are determined by election. You choose to run and the other youth pick who they want in charge. Many of the times this can lead to poor choices by the youth but it's how they want their unit to be ran. 

[qwazse]

Just like our POTUS needs a scout by the podium to hold a swear jar the next time he addresses a throng of scouts, we need parents to have their scout hold a moan jar for us while they wish for moonbeams. They drop in a quarter for each minute of moan.

22 hours ago, MattR said:

... Forty minutes on the phone over this? You get extra ice cream for that. ...

@Cambridgeskip, at twenty pence a minute, that should give you a bit of extra ice cream, even if the EU pulls a sugar blockade!

P.S. - I think our district executive (DE) would be the counterpart to your GSL. Although, as you may have read, we often manage them!

[Eagledad]

At first I was surprised that some parents take their son to another troop. I got used to it, but I was always disappointed. I improved my visitor talks to give parents a clearer understanding of how our program worked. And it helped, but some parents have their own vision of scouting. 

Barry

[dkurtenbach]

You're fortunate it was just a parent not getting it.  All too often, it is an adult leader who isn't getting it.

[Cambridgeskip]

1 hour ago, dkurtenbach said:

You're fortunate it was just a parent not getting it.  All too often, it is an adult leader who isn't getting it.

Indeed. Once upon a time that leader was me!

I used to run cubs, then about 9 years ago I switched to scouts. It was a steep learning curve for me as I learned to cut the apron strings and let them get on with it. I understand how it can be difficult to sit back and watch the kids making a hash of something and not intervene.

I've learned over time to let them take more and more of the responsibility and its worked better as time as gone past.

[ParkMan]

I wonder if it would help to talk with the parent about the things the Scout could do to help increase her prospects of getting chosen.

It's tough sometimes to simply accept - they chose someone else.  While that's a useful lesson in life to learn, it also can be a good motivator to make yourself the obvious choice for next time.  You mentioned:

On 9/21/2018 at 7:38 AM, Cambridgeskip said:

In this case this scout would make a perfectly good APL. She’s enthusiastic, well behaved, polite etc. And yes she could probably do a better job than at least two of my current crop of APLs.

Are there somethings she could do to position herself to be the clear choice next time?  Volunteer more for within the group, speak up more often, make it clear that this is something she wants?

We see this in our troop.  We have youth who are naturally strong leaders.  They speak up more, are more vocal in setting direction, volunteer to lead things when opportunities come up, are more confident making decisions, etc.  Maybe those scouts lose an election or two here and there.  But, on the whole they tend to land in the leadership positions.  Some scouts just show up in the troop acting that way, but more seem to develop into it. 

Maybe she and her mom could work on developing those traits instead of asking you to force a choice.  You have to say those things diplomatically, but I think this is where I'd go with the parent.  I find that I often learn more about leadership from figuring out what I have to do to get a job as I do in actually doing the job.

Just a thought.

[SSScout]

Skip:   I'd say this is a good example of one of my favorite axioms:   "The work is done by whoever shows up."   

This young Scout will be one of the ones who show up, yes?   And, as has been said, when the other Scouts notice who helps with the dishes, who helps the younger Scouts over the log, who jumps in when the tent starts to blow down,  the next election will show who they have come to expect leadership from.  

The Servant Leader does not necessarily seek the TITLE.  she/he leads by leading, not by complaining. 

[WisconsinMomma]

When the daughter is 30 will the mom call the supervisor at work and ask why the daughter did not get a pay increase?  Sometimes this happens in real life!!  It's crazy.  

You just have to hold firm with the way that things work in Scouts.  You can't bend the rules for a complainer. 

[Ranman328]

I have a discussion with the entire Troop when we start our Patrol and Troop Elections.  I tell them the election is not a popularity contest.  I make each scout give a short speech about their qualifications and why they want to be a Leader in the Troop.  I encourage the Scouts to vote for the person they feel best can lead their patrol.  Ask themselves do they want a Scout in as Quartermaster that is only trying to check the box for Position of Rank and not do his job and get to a campout and find out he didn't get or bring required supplies.  They will quickly find out how it works. 

I just had a discussion with my youngest son.  A Life Scout was voted in as the PL and asked my son to be his Assistant (knowing he is the SM son and would be at all the meetings).  As you know the Assistant Patrol Leaders do not get credit as a POR.  In our Troop for some reason, we do weekly Patrol Leader Council Conference Calls (Something I will soon change to monthly face to face meetings).  Since the elections in April, the Patrol Leader has only been on three PLC calls and missed six Troop Meetings, got in trouble for leaving Camp at a Campout.  My son is upset that he has attended all these meetings and has been the one serving as the PL but will not get credit.  I reminded him of the advice I give out during elections.  The popular kid got elected and he gets to do the work.  Welcome to the real world.  I told him to remember this when elections come back up and this Scout runs for another Leadership position. 

[TAHAWK]

Tell the voters about how the PL has to be able to convince his peers to schedule what his patrols wants and the SPL has to convince the adults on the TC so support the PLC's program - need people who will be taken seriously.