SPL not wanting to be SPL

[ItsBrian]

As some know, I served as SPL for 2 years and in May we had elections. Nobody had wanted to step up to be SPL (we only have 11 scouts), so a senior scout basically he would do it just to do it. 

Now we have not had a PLC for three months, no annual PLC (I had to make the schedule with some of the committee and SM), and no meeting plans. Our SM is amazing and has been trying to guide him and help him but he shows no interest. I have tried to guide him, set up times to meet with him, etc. It’s just nobody shows interest in taking leadership for the troop forcing the SM and myself to do meetings, etc.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to approach this, that is great.

Edited September 18, 2018 by ItsBrian

[Eagledad]

How many active scouts? How many patrols?

[qwazse]

Why is it so hard for boys to accept that 11 of them are in a one patrol troop with no need for SPL or ASPL?

The oldest two or three are JASM, Instructor, or TG. With a small troop, the positions are similar. They should team up with the SM and make sure some busy work gets done, and maybe make some calls to other troops for a friendly campout and competition on whatever the troop thinks their one patrol is best at. The other boys should be the patrol, with the one PL and his APL. No PLC needed.

They come to meeting, JASM/TG/Instructor asks what they want to do in the next month, ask PL what he needs help with, and they help him call in assistance when needed and not a moment before.

@ItsBrian, I pitched this model to Son #2 when his troop became this small, and they soundly rejected it. Seems like you guys are also afraid of letting go of big troop bureaucracy. Any idea why?

[Eagledad]

14 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I pitched this model to Son #2 when his troop became this small, and they soundly rejected it. Seems like you guys are also afraid of letting go of big troop bureaucracy. Any idea why?

Responsibility is responsibility, no matter how it is titled. I'm guessing the responsibility is too daunting.  One suggestion is scale back the program until the scouts want to participate. That would where the maturity of the scouts organization skills are matched with the troop bureaucracy. Then, gradually apply more responsibility to build back program maturity. Maybe the SM takes the part of the SPL for six months to get some momentum. Simplify bureaucracy.

Brian and the SM should probably have the hard discussion of how the troop got to this point. 

Barry

[DuctTape]

I am with qwazse on this. The POR are not all necessary. Of there are only 11 scouts, there is at most two patrols. There is no need for an SPL and/or ASPL to help them plan and coordinate. Assuming 2 patrols, the PLC is the 2 PLs and their APLs; 4 scouts. No need to add another person to oversee these 4. If they are young, perhaps a more senior scout can help mentor the PLs to engage with each other to develop the program. Is there a PL training process embedded within the structure? Who trains them? 

[HashTagScouts]

With 11 Scouts total, I'm inclined to agree with the other suggestions here- scale back the level of POR titles.  Rather than a PLC where only say 5 Scouts are meeting to discuss the month ahead, use "patrol corner" at a troop meeting to engage all the Scouts toward a decision.  If you try too hard to fit a certain model, you could be over-complicating.  Assume with 11 Scouts, if you have one patrol and then one PL, what would an SPL be doing that is above and beyond that which the PL is doing? Seems redundant. 

Not knowing anything about this Scout serving as SPL, perhaps part of the issue for him could be the extra meetings that are an issue for him on his time, or that the additional meeting time is making it feel too much like a job rather than a privilege.  I would suggest scaling back to acting as one patrol, having the PL as the lead, with you and the other senior scouts being his confidants as much as possible.    

[fred johnson]

3 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

... Nobody had wanted to step up to be SPL (we only have 11 scouts) ...

You are a youth and involved in the troop ... Why do you think no one stepped up ? 

Another way to ask, do you think it is a commentary on the troop that no one wants to be SPL ?  Or, is it just the mix of scouts you have right now.  

 

I fear offering too much advice without knowing more.  

I say this as our troop has had cycles.  There were cycles when there was real competition to be SPL.  There were other times when all the scouts knew who they wanted.  BUT, there was one time when no one wanted to step up.  At that time, we had a parent who was loud and opinionated.  All the scouts heard the comments multiple times and the criticizing of the scouts.  My gut said none of them wanted to step up and deal with that.  

Usually though, SPL is the best job.  The scout is the focal point for everything.  It's extra work, but it can be a great experience.  

   

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by fred johnson

[ItsBrian]

12 hours ago, fred johnson said:

I say this as our troop has had cycles.  There were cycles when there was real competition to be SPL.  There were other times when all the scouts knew who they wanted.  BUT, there was one time when no one wanted to step up.  At that time, we had a parent who was loud and opinionated.  All the scouts heard the comments multiple times and the criticizing of the scouts.  My gut said none of them wanted to step up and deal with that.  

Usually though, SPL is the best job.  The scout is the focal point for everything.  It's extra work, but it can be a great experience.  

   

 

That sums up my case fantastically. We use to be really competitive with SPL, PL, etc. but ever since we got a new mix of scouts they showed no interest. 

 

Also, answering to others. We have  recently made 1 patrol again since scouts aged out. Our troop has always been a small troop and we have had a SPL and a PL since it was formed. This really has only been a issue for the past year or so.

[Eagledad]

There are many reasons for this situation to occur, but I once watched a very good boy run troop brought down to it's knees when the SPL and ASPL aged out of the troop. These two young men were fantastic scouts. They were my sons high school friends and even joined in on one of our Troop's Philmont treks, so I also knew them. They were also good leaders in OA. Where they failed the troop was passing the SPL/ASPL back and forth to each other for two years. It wasn't ego or anything like that, they were just good scouts who ran the troop program well and all the other scouts wanted to keep it that way.

While they were leaders, the troop changed Scoutmasters and the new scoutmaster did what he was supposed to do, step back and let the scouts run the program. But where he failed was developing future leaders. The two scouts did everything so well, that they did everything. When they left, nobody wanted to step into those shoes. The reputation of their hard work was intimidating in of itself, but none of the scouts hand any real top level leadership experience either.

This is one of the oldest troops in town and always had a reputation as a great boy run troop. To be SM was and honor. After the two scouts left, the troop lost 33 percent of the scouts. The situation verged on bit of a scandal for the chartering organization and the SM quit. 

The troop is back up to speed, but it took about five years to find the right SM, recruit new scouts and train the current scouts to lead. Actually, it took about five years to cycle through scouts who didn't learn to lead and get new scouts up to speed. 

All programs go through cycles. Identifying why and fixing is the hard part. Scouting is a game with a purpose. The challenge for adults is balancing the game and the purpose. We tend to talk about having too much adult involvement, but too little involvement can cause just as much harm. 

Generally leadership is actions intending to move a team to a goal. If members of the team don't have any responsibilities in the effort, they likely don't have a lot of pride in the team or the goals. Maybe the patrol needs some team building so every member relearns their needed contribution to helping the whole team reach a single goal. Accomplishment leads to pride. Pride in one self generally encourages a desire for more action toward goals. and one success leads to working toward another. I like to teach adults to work toward a program where the scouts go home saying "I like myself when I'm with the patrol". Team activities that reward success will raise up leaders. 

Barry

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Eagledad

[fred johnson]

7 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

That sums up my case fantastically. 

I still don't understand.  Do you think it's the mix of this set of scouts?  Do you think the role is intimidating?  Or do scouts remember bad experiences the previous SPL had?  Either due to their own capabilities?  Or position expectations (too much work)?  Or adult interactions?  Or scout behavior?  Or ????

I guess what are your top several theories why no one wanted to set up to be SPL ?  

[ItsBrian]

1 hour ago, fred johnson said:

I still don't understand.  Do you think it's the mix of this set of scouts?  Do you think the role is intimidating?  Or do scouts remember bad experiences the previous SPL had?  Either due to their own capabilities?  Or position expectations (too much work)?  Or adult interactions?  Or scout behavior?  Or ????

I guess what are your top several theories why no one wanted to set up to be SPL ?  

I think it is the mix of scouts, since most of them don’t want to be in a leadership role. It may also be because they think it is too much work. 

 

[fred johnson]

Interesting.  Perhaps this is where we as leaders need to constantly adjust to the mix of scouts that we have.  What may be easy and manageable for some scouts can be very daunting to other scouts.  Perhaps the unit needs to adjust to let the SPL make it a role he can manage and produce good results.  And, make it a bit fun.

[DuctTape]

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

I think it is the mix of scouts, since most of them don’t want to be in a leadership role. It may also be because they think it is too much work. 

 

I think this is where advancement as a method is perfect. Advancement is the scout's, having activities and adventures to allow one the opportunity to fulfill requirements means the scouts need to take responsibilty to ensure it happens, and of course the higher ranks require a position of responsibility in addition. Advancement becomes a motivator to take the lead in planning, organizing, and executing. 

So what does this look like in practice? 

At the most basic level it could be this scenario...

Johnny comes to you and says I want to get signed off on requirement x. You ask, do you know how to do x? Johnny says no, can you show me? "Of course. I will come to your next patrol meeting and show everyone. Can you set that up?" 

So here we have Johnny taking the small steps of leadership by scheduling with his patrol someone to do a demonstration of a skill because he was motivated by advancement.