"Active" definition - First Class to Star progression

[Bill2018]

Hello Folks

My son is a First Class Scout and is working on his progression to Star.  He has all the "check the block" requirements, to include Merit Badges, but due to soccer games on the same night as Troop meetings this semester, he is missing Troop Meetings.  Also, weekend soccer games are blocking his campouts.   He is being told he needs to be "active" however he indeed is actively participating in Scout activities when he is free of his other stuff.   

Does anyone have any advice on this ?  

Thank you !   

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

@Bill2018welcome to scouter.com

Edited September 17, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[acco40]

Be active in your troop for at least four months as a First Class Scout.

So what exactly does this mean and who determines what this means?  Let me start with the "who."  The Scoutmaster is in charge of advancement within the troop.   BSA sets the requirements for the ranks. 

As a former Scoutmaster, I knew that "active" meant "registered" - nothing more nothing less.   The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

Now, is it best for the Scout (or his parents) to be confrontational with the Scoutmaster, Patrol Leader, Advancement Chair or whomever?   No.   I'd suggest talking with your son and asking him to discuss the issue with the Scoutmaster (not sure "is being told" is in reference to).   If you feel he has hit a brick wall, I'd suggest a talk with the Scoutmaster (as a last resort) at a time of his (or her) choosing - not during a Scout Meeting or Committee Meeting.

Also keep in mind he has to have a POR (Position of Responsibility - Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster, or outdoor ethics guide)  and many, but not all, require him to be present at meetings and many times at other events (outings, etc.). 

Edited September 17, 2018 by acco40
missing word

[John-in-KC]

Acco’s definition is not the current one. 

The current, multi test based definition of active is on Page 24 of the Guide to Advancement. If I get to a laptop, Vice my iPad, I’ll cut and paste the pertinent paragraphs.

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

[acco40]

I'll defer to John-in-KC - I've probably got outdated sources.

From John's referenced material:

The purpose of Star, Life, and Eagle Scout requirements calling for Scouts to be active for a period of months involves impact. Since we prepare young people to go forth, and essentially, make a positive difference in our American society, we judge that a member is “active” when his level of activity in Scouting, whether high or minimal, has had a sufficiently positive influence toward this end.

Use the following three sequential tests to determine whether the requirement has been met. The first and second are required, along with either the third or its alternative.

1. The Scout is registered. The youth is registered in his unit for at least the time period indicated in the requirement, and he has indicated in some way, through word or action, that he considers himself a member. If a boy was supposed to have been registered, but for whatever reason was not, discuss with the local council registrar the possibility of back-registering him.

2. The Scout is in good standing. A Scout is considered in “good standing” with his unit as long as he has not been dismissed for disciplinary reasons. He must also be in good standing with the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. (In the rare case he is not, communications will have been delivered.)

3. The Scout meets the unit’s reasonable expectations; or, if not, a lesser level of activity is explained. If, for the time period required, a Scout or qualifying Venturer or Sea Scout meets those aspects of his unit’s pre-established expectations that refer to a level of activity, then he is considered active and the requirement is met. Time counted as “active” need not be consecutive. A boy may piece together any times he has been active and still qualify. If he does  not meet his unit’s reasonable expectations, then he
 must be offered the alternative that follows.

So a discipline issue or not meeting a reasonable expectation could be an issue.  Of course, a good Scoutmaster should not put undue burden on a Scout who may be on the football or wrestling team at school, be employed or have other commitments outside of Scouting.  

Edited September 17, 2018 by acco40

[Thunderbird]

The BSA Guide to Advancement has whole sections on Active Participation (4.2.3.1) and Positions of Responsibility (4.2.3.4):

https://www.scouting.org/resources/guide-to-advancement/mechanics-of-advancement/boy-and-varsity/

 

[John-in-KC]

JPEGs of pp 24 and 25...

[John-in-KC]

Acco, remember when we went round the axle, and National foisted that definition you have  on us?

 

and people wonder why we are so cynical about Project Polaris?

[acco40]

I'm getting to the point where I don't remember much!  I used to be very, very active on this site (with the old format) but I've been fairly inactive for almost 10 years.  Back then too much posting was about girls and God.   ;-)

[Thunderbird]

@John-in-KC  John, could you also post page 26?  That has the active in a POR related stuff.

[acco40]

4.2.3.4 Positions of Responsibility

“Serve actively in your unit for a period of … months in one or more … positions of responsibility” is an accomplishment every candidate for Star, Life, or Eagle must achieve. The following will help to determine whether a Scout has fulfilled the requirement.

4.2.3.4.1 Positions Must Be Chosen From AmongThose Listed. The position must be listed in the position of responsibility requirement shown in the most current edition of Boy Scout Requirements. Since more than one member may hold some positions—“instructor,” for example—it is expected that even very large units are able to provide sufficient opportunities within the list. The only exception involves Lone Scouts, who may use positions in school, in their religious organization, in a club, or elsewhere in the community. Units do not have authority to require specific positions of responsibility for a rank. For example, they must not require a Scout to be senior patrol leader to obtain the Eagle rank. Service in positions of responsibility in provisional units, such as a jamboree troop or Philmont trek crew, do not count toward this requirement.

For Star and Life ranks only, a unit leader may assign, as a substitute for the position of responsibility, a leadership project that helps the unit. If this is done, the unit leader should consult the unit committee and unit advancement coordinator to arrive at suitable standards.

The experience should provide lessons similar to those of the listed positions, but it must not be confused with, or compared to, the scope of an Eagle Scout service project. It may be productive in many cases for the Scout to propose a leadership project that is discussed with the unit leader and then “assigned.”

4.2.3.4.2 Meeting the Time Test May Involve Any Number of Positions. The requirement calls for a period of months. Any number of positions may be held as long as total service time equals at least the number of months required. Holding simultaneous positions does not shorten the
 required number of months. Positions need not flow from one to the other; there may be gaps between them. This applies to all qualified members including Lone Scouts.

When a Scout assumes a position of responsibility, something related to the desired results must happen.

4.2.3.4.3 Meeting Unit Expectations. If a unit has established expectations for positions of responsibility, and if, within reason (see the note under “Rank Requirements Overview,” 4.2.3.0), based on his personal skill set, the Scout meets them, he fulfills the requirement. When a Scout assumes a position, something related to the desired results must happen. It is a disservice to the Scout and to the unit to reward work that has not been done. Holding a position and doing nothing, producing no results, is unacceptable. Some degree of responsibility must be practiced, taken, or accepted.

4.2.3.4.4 Meeting the Requirement in the Absence of Unit
Expectations. It is best when a Scout’s leaders provide him position descriptions, and then direction, coaching, and support. Where this occurs, and is done well, the young man will likely succeed. When this support, for whatever reason, is unavailable or otherwise not provided—or when there are no clearly established expectations—then an adult leader or the Scout, or both, should work out the responsibilities to fulfill. In doing so, neither the position’s purpose nor degree of difficulty may be altered significantly or diminished. Consult the current BSA literature published for leaders in Boy Scouting, Varsity Scouting, Venturing, or Sea Scouts for guidelines on the responsibilities that might be fulfilled in the various positions of responsibility.

Under the above scenario, if it is left to the Scout to determine what should be done, and he makes a reasonable effort to perform accordingly for the time specified, then he fulfills this requirement. Even if his results are not necessarily what the unit leader, members of a board of review, or others involved may want to see, he must not be held to unestablished expectations.

[Sentinel947]

54 minutes ago, acco40 said:

I'm getting to the point where I don't remember much!  I used to be very, very active on this site (with the old format) but I've been fairly inactive for almost 10 years.  Back then too much posting was about girls and God.   😉

The more things change, the more they remain the same. Welcome back. 

[TMSM]

My advice is to first have him ask for troop guidelines for being active. For example some troops may say "50% meetings and 50% campouts during the SPL term of six months "

Second set priorities - you can play soccer and advance but you will have to make sacrifices to do both. Maybe only play spring soccer or miss a few games early in the season to go on some campouts.

I have a few scouts just checking boxes and I really don't think they are getting much out of the program. I also have a few scouts who focus six months of the year on scouting and they seem to do well in growth and leadership experience.

 

[Bill2018]

I really appreciate the quick replies back.  (It appears my question is not the first time in history this ever got asked....)

Thanks again

[SSF]

Nine times out of 10, I advocate for the scout in any kind of being "active" advancement dispute situation, however, if he is not attending troop meetings or making any camping trips, then I think even the most flexible SM might be hard pressed to justify him as actively participating.

Are there any other troop functions or activities that your son is participating in? i.e. Eagle service projects, troop service projects, fundraisers, etc.

Did he attend summer camp?   

One thing to keep in mind though is that your son's months of active service do not need to be consecutive,. As long as he can piece together six months, even if not consecutive, then each month most definitely counts towards being an active scout. 

If you have a 'my way or the highway" SM though he may not care and might demand that the months be consecutive.They know that's against the rules, but they also know council will do nothing to stop them.