Scouting Magazine - betting the farm on girls

[qwazse]

I usually let these be on the shaky legs on which they stand. But when they seem to come in spades, it might be time to correct.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

I admit I'm caught off guard. Superiority? qwazse?

Oh, I remember now. The Eagle.  

We are only human I guess. Shinny things.

Barry

Barry, you should know by that ad hominem serves only to hint that any real arguments you have are specious.

If at any point I have lorded my erstwhile rank over someone else, please quote. I vow to contact them personally and apologize. Until then, let readers know that your aim is blind.

If I can claim superiority in anything it is memories:

• of young women and men at a camp fire baking bread on sticks,
• of them settling in on an Appalachian plateau beneath a stand of hemlock for a game of cards before dusk,
• of rocks and bogs and songs and dance,
• of one helping another up the giant's ladder on a nigh-time ropes course,
• of the foreign scout helping her American mates remember their knots.

If you want to challenge my arrogance, such as it is, challenge that I have been deluded by experience, that my judgement is clouded by smiles of a rather peculiar brand of youth - exceptions from the rest of the nation.

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

... We are in the midst of a boy crisis. That crisis is not represented in the halls of Parliament because boys are not in Parliament! The masses are in denial about this crisis - or they simply don't care. If the same statistics applied to girls, only then would they care. ...

Yes. The crisis is that scouters have fabricated a lie about needing an institutionalized safe space for children of each sex across all parts of the nation. In doing so, they have alienated boys who so happen to patrol with their sisters and girlfriends to achieve the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with their mates.

Since colleges have increased integration, a larger percentage of American boys than ever are likely to complete college https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gender-education-gap/546677/. That an even larger percentage of American are also likely to complete college does not negate the historic academic potential for our average high-school male.

Meanwhile American scouters have touted sex-segregation, and a smaller percentage of American boys and girls than ever are likely to join scouts. What kind of safe space is it when your target audience wont join?

Edited September 18, 2018 by qwazse

[cocomax]

As a member of GSUSA and BSA, I think girls will do fine in a BSA program, it is a fine program for boys and girls. 

What I do see going haywire are the adults,  I see adults destroying programs in GSUSA and BSA because of selfish reasons, power trips, and sheer stupidity.

What I see going wrong is not the fault of the program or the youth.  The biggest problem is adults coming in with their own ideas on how to run things that go against the methods and aims of scouting and create a boring adult run program that drives the kids away in droves. 

[Eagledad]

12 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I usually let these be on the shaky legs on which they stand. But when they seem to come in spades, it might be time to correct.

Of course.

12 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Barry, you should know by that ad hominem serves only to hint that any real arguments you have are specious.

I have a lot of respect for you. My response was after considerable thought and reflection.

Barry

[walk in the woods]

40 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Yes. The crisis is that scouters have fabricated a lie about needing an institutionalized safe space for children of each sex across all parts of the nation. In doing so, they have alienated boys who so happen to patrol with their sisters and girlfriends to achieve the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with their mates.

I wonder if this Professor is a scouter...https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201706/is-there-really-boy-crisis... or if the lies are now a conspiracy theory.

 

These folks, https://www.youth-guidance.org/counseling/, are also clearly confused.  Becoming a Man and Working on Womanhood?  What kind of sexist programs are those!  Clearly lies.

Edited September 18, 2018 by walk in the woods

[gblotter]

On 9/8/2018 at 11:04 AM, HelpfulTracks said:

What I cannot understand is this, if someone is a supporter of keeping troops single gender, as I am, then why not stick around and work to keep it that way.

@HelpfulTracks  Reading through the last few pages of comments in this thread, perhaps you can better understand now why I'm not sticking around.

My son has had a phenomenal classic Scouting experience (Eagle Scout, 66 merit badges, 9 palms, OA, 5 summer camps, Jamboree, 60+ nights of camping, 150+ miles of hiking). I've been grateful to go along for the ride as Scoutmaster. But in so many ways, it feels like he and his Scouting buddies caught the last train out of the station. The comments in this thread only confirm that what lies ahead for BSA is something very different. BSA is bleeding membership, so I suppose change is inevitable. BSA now wants to appeal to a new kind of Scout and a new kind of Scouter with a new kind of family Scouting program. This gender-neutral, Euro-version of Scouting may be the future, but it is not for me.

Edited September 18, 2018 by gblotter

[an_old_DC]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

 in so many ways, it feels like he and his Scouting buddies caught the last train out of the station. The comments in this thread only confirm that what lies ahead for BSA is something very different. 

All three of my Eagle Scout sons have aged out of the program, and all three of them and I have the same feeling you expressed above.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by an_old_DC

[cocomax]

Yes, there is a war on boys and men and it is horrible. 

The same people that are waging war on boys are also waging war on girls and women.

Boys are being treated like toxic monsters that need to be drugged into submission and girls are brain washed into thinking they are helpless victims that can't do anything on their own and require special help to get anywhere in life and men are the eternal enemy and oppressors of women.

Back when I was a kid, boys and girls liked one another and got along pretty well. My Boy Scout troop sold Christmas Trees along side the Girl Scouts and things were pretty dang swell. When I was a young man in college young men and young women got along great.

Maybe if the BSA troop level scouters pull a fast one on BSA national and follow the model of Girl Troops and Boy Troops instead of just going co-ed, we might end up with something very special, girls and boys getting along again. Boys becoming fine men and girls becoming fine women. 

I wonder what kind of kids an Eagle Scout Man and an Eagle Scout Woman would raise?

BSA is still a spark of hope in a world that has lost its mind. 

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, cocomax said:

I wonder what kind of kids an Eagle Scout Man and an Eagle Scout Woman would raise?

BSA is still a spark of hope in a world that has lost its mind. 

Very nice post, thank you. 

Still, I wonder what kind of kids an Eagle Scout Father and an Gold Scout Mother would raise? I only propose that thought because the nobility of your post was lost when the BSA decided to change to the SA and not combine with the GSUSA to build better programs together. 

Of course such a suggestion would require a lot of courage from the GSUSA, but the leaders of the BSA admit their motivation is mainly self-serving. 

Barry

[Treflienne]

11 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

when the BSA decided to change to the SA and not combine with the GSUSA to build better programs together.

I don't think that combine with GSUSA was an option.   Can't do that unless GSUSA also wants it.

[Eagledad]

21 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

I don't think that combine with GSUSA was an option.   Can't do that unless GSUSA also wants it.

 

37 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Of course such a suggestion would require a lot of courage from the GSUSA, but the leaders of the BSA admit their motivation is mainly self-serving. 

As far as we know, nobody approached helping each other. My point was while cocomax was proposing the noble approach, the BSA took a different road.

Barry

[Hawkwin]

42 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

 

As far as we know, nobody approached helping each other.

IIRC, when all this started to become news, there were stories about how BSA approached GSUSA but was rebuffed.

One such snip:

Quote

But the Boy Scouts' Delimarkos told BuzzFeed that the organization has spent months trying to engage the Girl Scouts. "We are disheartened to see the Girl Scouts pull away from the possibility of cooperation to help address the needs of today's busy families," she said.

I think they would have made it work if they could.

[Eagledad]

1 minute ago, Hawkwin said:

IIRC, when all this started to become news, there were stories about how BSA approached GSUSA but was rebuffed.

One such snip:

I think they would have made it work if they could.

Hmm, ok.

Barry

[Treflienne]

6 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

IIRC, when all this started to become news, there were stories about how BSA approached GSUSA but was rebuffed.

One such snip:

I think they would have made it work if they could.

I think the organizations are just too different.  One or the other or both would have had to have changed a lot for the two to have coordinated their programs together.  I think that coordinating the two together, even if the attempt were to meet halfway, would have required a lot more change from BSA than simply adding its own girl program.  And I doubt if GSUSA would have wanted to meet halfway, either.

[ianwilkins]

14 hours ago, gblotter said:

This gender-neutral, Euro-version of Scouting may be the future, but it is not for me.

Oi! Don't try and blame us!!

And on a serious note, thank you for your time helping the young men in your care. You've made a positive difference to the world I feel sure.

[walk in the woods]

Saw this over on scouts-l

Quote

I've been following the saga in the BSA Community at Reddit.

*The "Too Long, Didn't read" version:*

5th Grade girl joins a pack, is the only female AOL scout. They plan a
camping trip with a troop, that is apparently not ready to accommodate
female scouts.

Mom consults a lawyer and threatens legal action, and the council forces
the troop to let her attend  .

Mom is still threatening legal action to require all Chartered orgs to go
100% coed across the board. Oh, and going to the school board to make sure
the BSA doesn't get to recruit at schools any more.


https://www.reddit.com/r/BSA/comments/9h4ybh/girls_as_cub_scouts/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BSA/comments/9hbwye/update_girls_as_cub_scouts/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BSA/comments/9hjcl8/final_update_girls_in_cub_scouts/