Scouting Magazine - betting the farm on girls

[Eagle1993]

2 hours ago, gblotter said:

My father-in-law is a long-time Scouter. He is a past council president, and a current Western Region committee member. He has sat in meetings with the National Key 3.

Tonight he explained to me that the term "Family Scouting" applies only to a Cub Scout Pack with mixed Dens, or a Scouts BSA Linked Troop arrangement. Traditional single-gender Packs and non-linked Troops do not operate according to the rules of Family Scouting. People would join Family Scouting Packs and Troops with the expectation of bringing moms, dads, and younger siblings to Scouting events, and the Patrol Method would not apply. People joining traditional single-gender Packs and Troops would have no such expectation, and the Patrol Method would continue.

I'm not saying he has the correct understanding of what BSA National is doing, but his interpretation is interesting. If he is right, then BSA National has done an incredibly poor job of explaining the program changes for Family Scouting.

I don’t think he is correct.  We should learn soon from the girl’s Scouts BSA book.   I can tell you they updated the Webelos book to add girls and they still require them to teach the Patrol method under Scouting Adventure (to earn AOL) ... even to girls.

[Sentinel947]

4 hours ago, gblotter said:

My father-in-law is a long-time Scouter. He is a past council president, and a current Western Region committee member. He has sat in meetings with the National Key 3.

Tonight he explained to me that the term "Family Scouting" applies only to a Cub Scout Pack with mixed Dens, or a Scouts BSA Linked Troop arrangement. Traditional single-gender Packs and non-linked Troops do not operate according to the rules of Family Scouting. People would join Family Scouting Packs and Troops with the expectation of bringing moms, dads, and younger siblings to Scouting events, and the Patrol Method would not apply. People joining traditional single-gender Packs and Troops would have no such expectation, and the Patrol Method would continue.

I'm not saying he has the correct understanding of what BSA National is doing, but his interpretation is interesting. If he is right, then BSA National has done an incredibly poor job of explaining the program changes for Family Scouting.

That'd be my "breaking point." 

[Oldscout448]

8 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

It used to concern me when I saw Scouters leaving the program for any reason, particularly out of frustration.

But seeing supposed support for boys being turned into disdain and disrespect  for women and girls changes my mind. 

I will not miss that attitude. It is not something I could  never teach my son or any other youth. Apparently some think of women as second or third class citizens, or worse. So for those that think that way or talk that way, I cannot say thank you, I can only say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

My immediate family has about 90 years in GSUSA, about 85 in BSA.  We bleed green.   I don't recall  anyone ever being charged with  " disdain and disrespect "  or thinking women are worse than third class citizens.  Whatever that is.  But  both have morphed to the point where it's more about the program and the money than the Scouts.and so the whole clan is ready to walk out that door.   All we ask is that you not slam it on us as we sadly  take our leave.

[gblotter]

8 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I don’t think he is correct.  We should learn soon from the girl’s Scouts BSA book.   I can tell you they updated the Webelos book to add girls and they still require them to teach the Patrol method under Scouting Adventure (to earn AOL) ... even to girls.

My father-in-law claims that the Family Scouting program was crafted in response to immigrant families and millennial parents who want to participate in Scouting the way they participate in soccer. The whole family shows up to experience the activity together. They demand greater involvement (helicoptering?) and are opposed to just dropping off their child. Apparently, this is supported by Surbaugh's surveys of non-Scouting families.

I suppose greater parental involvement means lots of new leaders to support lots of new Mixed-Den Packs and Linked Troops. But this kind of parenting would also nullify any attempts at running the Patrol Method (regardless of what appears in handbooks).

My father-in-law was emphatic that Family Scouting is not about offering a traditional Scouting program to girls. The traditional Scouting program is dying by virtue of losing membership at 2-5% per year. Family Scouting is about offering a new and different (non-traditional) Scouting program to the entire family so they can participate together. Even though Family Scouting makes the Patrol Method difficult/impossible, BSA must move in that direction to remain relevant to these target groups (immigrants and millennials).  Traditional Scouting families (non-immigrants, white, older) do not constitute a growth market because they have fewer children and are fragmented between various activities and thus they are not being targeted by Family Scouting. During an animated discussion, he pointedly said that the traditional Scouting program will die out along with old white men like me who won't change and adapt. If inflexible Scouters like me leave, it is regrettable but necessary for BSA's survival (he didn't call me a Conditional Scouter, but close).

This is the kind of information he gleans from sitting in meetings where the National Key 3 are present.

Edited September 7, 2018 by gblotter

[Eagle1993]

@gblotter

If that is the case I’m out. I don’t need a club to hang out with other families.  Cub scouts is somewhat like that but the only reason I’m sticking with that is that I know what comes with Boy Scouts.  If they make Boy Scouts Webelos 3 I have no interest.  

[LVAllen]

11 hours ago, gblotter said:

My father-in-law is a long-time Scouter. He is a past council president, and a current Western Region committee member. He has sat in meetings with the National Key 3.

Tonight he explained to me that the term "Family Scouting" applies only to a Cub Scout Pack with mixed Dens, or a Scouts BSA Linked Troop arrangement. Traditional single-gender Packs and non-linked Troops do not operate according to the rules of Family Scouting. People would join Family Scouting Packs and Troops with the expectation of bringing moms, dads, and younger siblings to Scouting events, and the Patrol Method would not apply. People joining traditional single-gender Packs and Troops would have no such expectation, and the Patrol Method would continue.

I'm not saying he has the correct understanding of what BSA National is doing, but his interpretation is interesting. If he is right, then BSA National has done an incredibly poor job of explaining the program changes for Family Scouting.

I'd be curious to know why he thinks the term "Family Scouting" refers to an entirely distinct program, a la Scouting and Soccer. The curriculum will remain the same for each group, which means the Rules for the Great Game of Scouting remain the same. Different troops, be they of whatever gender, may play the game differently, as they do now, but the rules are the same. Scouts do mist everything by patrols.

[gblotter]

 

6 minutes ago, LVAllen said:

I'd be curious to know why he thinks the term "Family Scouting" refers to an entirely distinct program, a la Scouting and Soccer. The curriculum will remain the same for each group, which means the Rules for the Great Game of Scouting remain the same.

My father-in-law was animated but not always consistent in making his arguments.  I think his response would be: With "Family Scouting", the whole family is playing the Great Game of Scouting together.

6 minutes ago, LVAllen said:

Scouts do mist everything by patrols.

My father-in-law was the first to admit that Family Scouting objectives are not necessarily compatible with the Patrol Method.

Edited September 7, 2018 by gblotter

[an_old_DC]

57 minutes ago, gblotter said:

My father-in-law claims that the Family Scouting program was crafted in response to immigrant families and millennial parents who want to participate in Scouting the way they participate in soccer. The whole family shows up to experience the activity together. They demand greater involvement (helicoptering?) and are opposed to just dropping off their child. Apparently, this is supported by Surbaugh's surveys of non-Scouting families.

I suppose greater parental involvement means lots of new leaders to support lots of new Mixed-Den Packs and Linked Troops. But this kind of parenting would also nullify any attempts at running the Patrol Method (regardless of what appears in handbooks).

My father-in-law was emphatic that Family Scouting is not about offering a traditional Scouting program to girls. The traditional Scouting program is dying by virtue of losing membership at 2-5% per year. Family Scouting is about offering a new and different (non-traditional) Scouting program to the entire family so they can participate together. Even though Family Scouting makes the Patrol Method difficult/impossible, BSA must move in that direction to remain relevant to these target groups (immigrants and millennials).  

 

I am barely holding on now. If what your FiL says does indeed come to pass, I am done.  

[gblotter]

1 minute ago, an_old_DC said:

I am barely holding on now. If what your FiL says does indeed come to pass, I am done.  

 

I had told my father-in-law that I would be done with Scouting when the LDS exit on 12/31/19. Ironically, he was using these arguments to urge me to stay on with assurances that Family Scouting would not affect my traditional all-boy troop because we wouldn't be operating according to the Family Scouting rules of heavier family involvement, so I had nothing to worry about.

Then when I started airing my grievances with Surbaugh and recent decisions, my father-in-law first became defensive, then animated, and finally aggressive. Telling me things like Scouting must change to remain relevant to today's immigrant and millennial families or die. Accusing me of contributing to BSA's demise by resisting these changes (but not calling me a Conditional Scouter).

Even though my father-in-law and I are both long-time dedicated Scouters, there are reasons why we normally avoid discussion of these topics.

[cocomax]

Wood Badge
Day Four: Generations in Scouting
(Troop Presentation)
Time Allowed
60 minutes
Learning Objectives
As a result of this activity, participants will be able to
■ Understand generational differences as another aspect of diversity.
■ Consider how these differences impact each group.
■ Understand the “adult led, youth run” aspects of a unit.
■ Learn ways to work together across generations for a better future.
Materials Needed
■ Adhesive notes labeled with generationally diverse character names
■ Small group activity worksheets/situations
■ Handout with characteristics of each generation
■ Flip chart pad and markers

[HelpfulTracks]

Yes, that is a very good presentation in Wood Badge. 

What were your thoughts when you took it/taught it @cocomax

[cocomax]

"We can and must work together as one team, old and young, across generations."

"Young people respect and are willing to learn from well-intentioned people of
their parents’ and grandparents’ generations. By using the skills that we are learning
here at Wood Badge, we will be able to work together to find solutions. The
Millennials are open to partnership—be sure that YOU are. They have much to
share and to say, so listen to them. Find your shared vision and make it a reality.
Scouting tomorrow will be as different from today as we are now from 30 years
ago. Together we can create the greatest change in Scouting history and equip
our next generation of leaders to build upon our legacy."

 

[HelpfulTracks]

I will take it from your post that you haven’t taken Wood Badge, let alone staffefed it, and don’t have a clue what that section is about, beyond reading from a syllabus.

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then,  lets remain helpful and courteous. Thanks.

@MattR , @desertrat77 @NJCubScouter

Edited September 7, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[ParkMan]

5 hours ago, cocomax said:

Wood Badge
Day Four: Generations in Scouting
(Troop Presentation)
Time Allowed
60 minutes
Learning Objectives
As a result of this activity, participants will be able to
■ Understand generational differences as another aspect of diversity.
■ Consider how these differences impact each group.
■ Understand the “adult led, youth run” aspects of a unit.
■ Learn ways to work together across generations for a better future.
Materials Needed
■ Adhesive notes labeled with generationally diverse character names
■ Small group activity worksheets/situations
■ Handout with characteristics of each generation
■ Flip chart pad and markers

This was one of my favorite sessions from Wood Badge.  The biggest thing I walked away from the session was understanding better that different generations communicate & see the world differently.  Scouting is the unique mix of generations and I remember these lessons a lot.  Very helpful.

@gblotter I appreciate you sharing your father-in-law's insight here.  I do understand well his motivation.  I can't say that I'd have reached the same conclusion and remedy, but I can certainly see the problem that he at least feels this attempts to resolve.