Scouting Magazine - betting the farm on girls

[Saltface]

1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't expect summer camp or camporees to change much besides the involvement of more females. 

I think we may already be seeing it.  As I've whined about previously:

Quote

My troop recently returned from summer camp at one of our local council's camps. We were more than a little disappointed by how the program was run this year.

...

The Friday afternoon Camp-wide Games normally included things like throwing tomahawks, paddling canoes by hand, and shooting rifles. This was replaced by a scavenger hunt to take selfies with various people and items around camp, including "a fidget spinner that you bought at the trading post." (That item really stuck in my craw.) The boys decided to opt out of doing the scavenger hunt and go back to our campsite. Several other troops had the same idea.

Maybe it's a case of No True Scotsman, but I honestly don't think there's a man alive that would think this a great idea, especially when all the resources for alternative ideas are right there at your fingertips. But a scout mom who still sees her Life Scout as a little Wolf Cub? Yeah, that's definitely an activity she would plan.

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

Thank you for your insightful comments and understanding attitude.

Same to you! At the end of the day, we care about our Scouts and want to give them the best program possible. I know you do, because you won't spend spare time on a scouting forum. Regardless of whether you stay or go in the next few years, your service to youth stands out when fewer and fewer are willing to step up. Hopefully you'll find another worthy cause or ministry to give your talent to.  

[Chris1]

2 hours ago, Saltface said:

Maybe it's a case of No True Scotsman, but I honestly don't think there's a man alive that would think this a great idea, especially when all the resources for alternative ideas are right there at your fingertips. But a scout mom who still sees her Life Scout as a little Wolf Cub? Yeah, that's definitely an activity she would plan.

Congratulations. that is the most sexist remark I have heard all day

[Saltface]

22 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

Congratulations. that is the most sexist remark I have heard all day

But would you argue that it's untrue?

[Chris1]

Absolutely I'd argue that. But I don't think this is the place or time for that discussion

Edited September 6, 2018 by Chris1

[Saltface]

Proceed.

[Saltface]

6 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

But I don't think this is the place or time for that discussion

Is this not the matter we're already discussing?

[Chris1]

Gosh, I thought we were talking about the September October issue of scouting magazine.

[Saltface]

23 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

Gosh, I thought we were talking about the September October issue of scouting magazine.

We're talking about how female involvement affects BSA.

Okay, maybe I could have said it in softer terms, but I still believe it's fundamentally true. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Saltface

[MattR]

@Saltface and @Chris1, I sent you a PM.

[ParkMan]

As a Scouting community, we really need to stop with the negative comments about moms.  They seem like something out of the 1960's.  In our troop, the moms are just as strong advocates for outdoor adventure as the dads.  There's no arts and crafts in our troop.  No offense, but reading these comments is like a wierd flashback to times past.

But, even if they were true, girls in the BSA is a completely separate topic.  The dad the brings his son to Scouts is just as likely to bring his daughter to Scouts.  The mom that brings her son to Scouts is just as likely to bring her daughter to scouts.  There is no real linkage here.  The only link between the gender of the leaders and the gender of the participants is the nutty BSA rule about now having a female adult leader.  But that's a topic for another thread.

I've said this in countless threads over the years.  The BSA's biggest problem is the poor job that we do in explaining our program.  Whether it's moms, dads, or whatever - the single biggest thing the BSA gets wrong is in the poor training and development of leaders.  Fix how we explain what we do, you'll start to fix some of these problems.

[HelpfulTracks]

It used to concern me when I saw Scouters leaving the program for any reason, particularly out of frustration.

But seeing supposed support for boys being turned into disdain and disrespect  for women and girls changes my mind. 

I will not miss that attitude. It is not something I could  never teach my son or any other youth. Apparently some think of women as second or third class citizens, or worse. So for those that think that way or talk that way, I cannot say thank you, I can only say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

[gblotter]

My stance is evidence that it is possible to be pro-girl AND pro-boy without supporting BSA’s girl decision. My wife and three daughters also oppose what BSA has done.

In another forum thread, I just expressed support for GSUSA and their attempts to craft a Scouting program tailored for the unique needs of girls. I am very much pro-girl but anti-BSA4G.

[gblotter]

3 hours ago, ParkMan said:

As a Scouting community, we really need to stop with the negative comments about moms.

100 percent agree.

In our LDS troop, moms provide vital support and hold key committee positions. However, moms do not hold SM/ASM positions, and moms do not attend campouts.

In our LDS pack, moms shoulder most of the burden - dads focus only on the Webelos Den.

At least in the way our units operate, moms are nothing but a positive influence.

[gblotter]

3 hours ago, ParkMan said:

The BSA's biggest problem is the poor job that we do in explaining our program.

My father-in-law is a long-time Scouter. He is a past council president, and a current Western Region committee member. He has sat in meetings with the National Key 3.

Tonight he explained to me that the term "Family Scouting" applies only to a Cub Scout Pack with mixed Dens, or a Scouts BSA Linked Troop arrangement. Traditional single-gender Packs and non-linked Troops do not operate according to the rules of Family Scouting. People would join Family Scouting Packs and Troops with the expectation of bringing moms, dads, and younger siblings to Scouting events, and the Patrol Method would not apply. People joining traditional single-gender Packs and Troops would have no such expectation, and the Patrol Method would continue.

I'm not saying he has the correct understanding of what BSA National is doing, but his interpretation is interesting. If he is right, then BSA National has done an incredibly poor job of explaining the program changes for Family Scouting.