Scouting Magazine - betting the farm on girls

[cocomax]

3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Really? Boys log on to scouting dot org? But, soon it's gonna be Boy's Life and other youth-facing publications.

We have had an uptick in membership. But, the Pack will not serve up as many Webelos next year.

Troops (BSA and GS/USA) have been cycling up and down like that for decades. It's like the weather: hard to catch a global warming signal for all of the noise.

Yes, when a boy wants to join the Boy Scouts and does an google search to find out more, maybe try to find a troop, they will most likely end up on scouting.org.

You are right, I do not know what the big picture of what is going on a large scale.  I just see a tiny piece of the world, and my piece of the world is not at all like the rest of the world. 

I will have to wait and see what happens.

Boy's Life said many months ago that they were going to change their name this October to "welcome the girls to scouting" . . . I am wondering if they are still still have the guts to do so.  

[malraux]

But the scouting page or the be a scout page are more gender neutral. Its really the sign up for more info about scouts bsa starting in February that has a prominent girls only look. But if I’m a boy, I’m looking to sign up now. 

[cocomax]

8 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I compare the the BSA updates similar to how we handled adding girls.  As the change occurs, I expect over communication and focus.  As a Pack we wanted to ensure the girls that joined understood we fully welcomed them, regardless of what noise they may hear from outside.  So, we sent emails to parents, included the girls as a focus during various events and ensured we fully welcomed them.  Now that they are fully on board we are moving to business as usual.  We still need to add some reminders that we accept both boys and girls in our Pack as MANY are unaware of the change.

I would expect a lot of focus from BSA through June/July next year on girls given this major change.  Units adding girls will need the guidance and many people are still unaware of the change.  Over communication will be key.  Over time it should be balanced but I have no issue with the increased focus short term.  

It sounds like your pack is doing a good job welcoming the girls.

At this point,  we are so far down this rabbit hole I would like to see BSA hit the gas,  not the brakes.  I think it would would be great if BSA removed all pictures of boys from their web site and all magazines. Only show girls, and make sure most of the girls are people of color.  Go all in.  Focus only on girls and female scouters. Go in 100% and see what happens. Do it for at least a year or two. 

I have reached a state of peace with what is going on. I have reach a state of acceptance.

I try to only worry about things that I have the power to control,  I have almost zero influence over what BSA does, it is a waste of time to worry about BSA national matters.   

I am grateful that live in a magical time.  I get to be a scouter and my son is a scout during the last days of the Boy Scouts.  My son will be one of the last Boy Scouts as that title fades into the dust bin of history. 

We live in interesting times.

I like to read things and talk about all things BSA, because it is interesting to me. Not because I can really change anything. 

 

[Cambridgeskip]

39 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

 We still need to add some reminders that we accept both boys and girls in our Pack as MANY are unaware of the change.

I would expect a lot of focus from BSA through June/July next year on girls given this major change.  Units adding girls will need the guidance and many people are still unaware of the change.  Over communication will be key.  Over time it should be balanced but I have no issue with the increased focus short term.  

If it is anythnig like this side of the Atlantic the reminders will need to go on for longer than that. 27 Years since we had local option, 13 years since my group went for it and 11 years since compulsory coed we still get expressions of surprise that girls can be scouts. Despite girls featuring one way or another in pretty much all publicity the message has still not fully got through.

[qwazse]

37 minutes ago, cocomax said:

Yes, when a boy wants to join the Boy Scouts and does an google search to find out more, maybe try to find a troop, they will most likely end up on scouting.org. ...

I honestly have never met a single boy who looked up our troop on a website.

[scotteg83]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

I honestly have never met a single boy who looked up our troop on a website.

facebook maybe, but its usually the parent that looks it up

[Setonfan]

Just a comment on the original post- I actually thought the content was pretty good, maybe I'm missing something.  Went through all the articles, and while my perspective may not be reflective of everyone else, found the following stories by category:

Family articles- 9

Outdoor oriented- 12

General interest- 8

Inspiration (Eagles, OA service, etc.)- 9

Safety- 4

And of course, some ads.  While a couple of the family based articles were a few pages, overall it seemed pretty balanced, especially for a new program type launching.  Guess we will see what the next issue looks like!

[Bowline]

To the OP- maybe it’s just me, but this months magazine was the most consistent information since the announcement of girls entering scouts.  I think there still could be been some hard facts just to reinforce things like the early adopter packs, girls joining cubs but not AOL until next year, and girls in troops starting in Jan.   Or that Scout age girls can already join venturing and if their goal is Eagle, they can start working merit badges.

[Thunderbird]

51 minutes ago, Bowline said:

To the OP- maybe it’s just me, but this months magazine was the most consistent information since the announcement of girls entering scouts.  I think there still could be been some hard facts just to reinforce things like the early adopter packs, girls joining cubs but not AOL until next year, and girls in troops starting in Jan.   Or that Scout age girls can already join venturing and if their goal is Eagle, they can start working merit badges.

I'm confused as to how a girl who is currently in Venturing can start earning merit badges.  Because she isn't a qualified Venturer or Sea Scout (meaning that the Scout has earned First Class rank while in a troop), then she can't earn merit badges until after she joins a girls troop.

[Eagle1993]

6 hours ago, Bowline said:

To the OP- maybe it’s just me, but this months magazine was the most consistent information since the announcement of girls entering scouts.  I think there still could be been some hard facts just to reinforce things like the early adopter packs, girls joining cubs but not AOL until next year, and girls in troops starting in Jan.   

Girls can be AOL this year.  Many of the Webelos 1 completed 4th grade in May so 6 months would put them at Nov/Dec for earning AOL.  There are others that could have been 10 even earlier.

Girls in Troops start February.

[qwazse]

10 hours ago, Bowline said:

To the OP- maybe it’s just me, but this months magazine was the most consistent information since the announcement of girls entering scouts.  I think there still could be been some hard facts just to reinforce things like the early adopter packs, girls joining cubs but not AOL until next year, and girls in troops starting in Jan.   Or that Scout age girls can already join venturing and if their goal is Eagle, they can start working merit badges.

 

9 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

I'm confused as to how a girl who is currently in Venturing can start earning merit badges.  Because she isn't a qualified Venturer or Sea Scout (meaning that the Scout has earned First Class rank while in a troop), then she can't earn merit badges until after she joins a girls troop.

@Bowline, not sure where you got info that venturers can "start" earning MBs. I mean, I guess technically there's never been anything to stop anyone from earning MBs. I guess had they asked, I could have drawn up blue cards years ago for any in my crew who wanted to try to earn the round medallions. I know some rogue troops have done something of the sort. But, they wont count for rank advancement until this February.

At that point, if a 16 year old female venturer shows up with a stack of blue cards and everyone knows that she has the skills, it would be false for me to say she hasn't earned the badges. In fact I'd probably say "Please, find a buddy and a woman of integrity and help me jump-start this program for these half-dozen crossovers."

Edited September 5, 2018 by qwazse

[gblotter]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:43 PM, DeanRx said:

Boys are the failing segment of our society right now, and nobody cares - nobody.

The crux of the argument to me is in this sentence...

 

Thank you @DeanRx

I regret my assault on Surbaugh being a liar only because it diverted discussion away from my main point - that boys have now lost one of the few remaining programs tailored specifically for their needs.

Schools judge boy behavior by the girl standard. Boys are treated like defective girls. Result: Boys earn lower grades, fewer honors, and are far less likely to go to college. Boys account for 70 percent of school suspensions. If these statistics applied to girls it would be seen as a societal crisis, but nobody cares because it is boys. With boys dropping out and girls racing ahead, just who will be the partners of our daughters to build the next generation? As boys fail, so does our collective future.

I cheer on the opportunities and achievements of my three daughters, but it's my son who occupies most of my concern. He already struggles in navigating the world of women - at home (with his three sisters) and at school (with almost all female teachers). Scouting was his refuge to be a boy among boys, but no more starting February 2019. All of that is now sacrificed on the altar of inclusivity. It's terribly sad for me to see.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by gblotter

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

Thank you @DeanRx

I regret my assault on Surbaugh being a liar only because it diverted discussion away from my main point - that boys have now lost one of the few remaining programs tailored specifically for their needs.

Schools judge boy behavior by the girl standard. Boys are treated like defective girls. Result: Boys earn lower grades, fewer honors, and are far less likely to go to college. Boys account for 70 percent of school suspensions. If these statistics applied to girls it would be seen as a societal crisis, but nobody cares because it is boys. With boys dropping out and girls racing ahead, just who will be the partners of our daughters to build the next generation? As boys fail, so does our collective future.

I cheer on the opportunities and achievements of my three daughters, but it's my son who occupies most of my concern. He already struggles in navigating the world of women - at home (with his three sisters) and at school (with almost all female teachers). Scouting was his refuge to be a boy among boys, but no more starting February 2019. All of that is now sacrificed on the altar of inclusivity. It's terribly sad for me to see.

 

 

I agree to a point. If your troop is Mormon (forgive me, I forget everyones's affiliations here.) My troop is still a space for boys. It's not changing just because girls are allowed in separate troops in 2019. We have no interested girls and will not be starting a girls troop. It's BAU for us. 

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, gblotter said:

... Schools judge boy behavior by the girl standard. Boys are treated like defective girls. Result: Boys earn lower grades, fewer honors, and are far less likely to go to college. Boys account for 70 percent of school suspensions. If these statistics applied to girls it would be seen as a societal crisis, but nobody cares because it is boys. With boys dropping out and girls racing ahead, just who will be the partners of our daughters to build the next generation? As boys fail, so does our collective future. ...

@gblotter you are looking through the world with mud-colored glasses. Let's try to balance your bleak outlook:

I don't know about where you live, but around here black males account for a disproportionate number of the school suspensions. There is no talk that they need their own white-free space so that they don't have to be judged according to a standard of "white boy behavior". Nor should there be talk of it. Nor talk of a "girl behavior" standard. It just makes no sense (except for deluded rich and powerful men who think they have a right to "locker-room" talk).

College enrollment rates (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cpb.asp) are

• 44% in white females vs. 40% in white males,
• 39% in black females vs. 33% in black males, and
• 44% in hispanic females vs. 35% in hispanic females.

So depending race, any given boy has a mere 5-9 point disparity -- that's somewhere between 11:10 to 5:4 odds against them. If it were a horse race, I'd take any of those odds any day. That gap has not changed for two decades.

But why the disparity? Well, young men (especially white males) are more likely to start careers in the military, enroll in a trade, or start their own or assume their family's business. In other words, more women are going to college out of a perceived need to do so. They have been taught that, for the same pay as a male counterpart, they will have to be more credentialed. With credentials, however, comes staggering debt, and that does indeed impact prospects for marriage and the desire for large families.

In other words. Your son, even with current troubles in school, is far more likely to reach his 30s with a lower debt profile and more career prospects than your daughters.

Edited September 5, 2018 by qwazse

[gblotter]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

It just makes no sense (except for deluded rich and powerful men who think they have a right to "locker-room" talk).

Ah, I see. The only folks who could possibly support a Scouting program tailored for the unique needs of boys are rich and powerful men who want to preserve a right to "locker-room" talk. You forgot to mention privilege, patriarchy, and toxic masculinity in your argument. I'm glad to understand the color of your glasses.

You are deluded if you do not believe that boys behave differently than girls and develop differently than girls - especially at these ages.

A "mere" 5-9 point disparity in college enrollment is only one of many symptoms of the failure of boys in our society. By your dismissal, you are obviously one of the masses who don't care about this "non-problem".