SM Conference for higher ranks ONLY on campouts?

[gblotter]

Vindication from Scouting Magazine.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/09/12/scoutmasters-availability-conference/

One would hope that this blog entry definitively answers the question and settles any dispute, but your Scoutmaster seems rather inflexible. I wonder if he will persist with his errant policy. 

It seems like the folks at Scouting Magazine must have read this entire thread because they crafted their response to this exact scenario.

Edited September 12, 2018 by gblotter

[Hawkwin]

27 minutes ago, gblotter said:

It seems like the folks at Scouting Magazine must have read this entire thread because they crafted their response to this exact scenario.

They did, I sent it to them!

Not only was the question answered, it was answered in a way that was artful, professional, and real world (without being specific my case). Color me very impressed.

[gblotter]

Just now, Hawkwin said:

Not only was the question answered, it was answered in a way that was artful, professional, and real world (without being specific my case).

1

Even though it was a professional response, your Scoutmaster deserves to feel embarrassed for his policy being called out like that. Now will he backdown or persist in defiance?

[Hawkwin]

2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Even though it was a professional response, your Scoutmaster deserves to feel embarrassed for his policy being called out like that. Now will he backdown or persist in defiance?

We will see. I plan to forward the email to the CC and see if I get a response. I don't plan to interact directly with the SM at this point. I still have not received an email response from the CC which is very disappointing and I am thinking that I might need to visit the committee meeting and discuss that issue separately. Parents and scouts should expect a timely response from our volunteers, even if that response is "no."

[mashmaster]

fingers crossed for you.

[FireStone]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:02 PM, Hawkwin said:

Ugh. No luck. SMs reply is that he has not denied the Conference; that he will provide an opportunity for the conference on XX date which just happens to be the camp out. It isn't his fault if my scout can't make it to the camp out.

It's very unfortunate that his response was to hold firm on his unreasonable policy. And his policy, while having only good intentions, is indeed unreasonable. You mentioned that your son was at camp for a week, where there would be plenty of opportunity to have a conference. And your son attended Ordeal weekend recently, where as someone mentioned would be tough to hold a SM conference at but still it shows your son is active and attends events beyond the weekly troop meeting. He's doing what the SM wants, to have older scouts active on trips. It just happens that the one opportunity the SM is giving your son to have the conference is one of the seemingly few times that he can't make it. That's entirely unreasonable. 

 

[Chris1]

It may be time to get your District Commissioner and/or Council Advancement Committee. 

[69RoadRunner]

The scoutmaster conference is for the benefit of both the scout and the scouter. However, I see it as a requirement on the scouter's side more than the scout's side. We have a duty to get that done.

Any time a scout asks me about a conference or completing a requirement and I have no choice but to delay it due to other troop obligations, I feel bad. These scouts have done their work and have earned the advancement. We need to do our part and not be a hurdle.

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The scoutmaster conference is for the benefit of both the scout and the scouter. However, I see it as a requirement on the scouter's side more than the scout's side. We have a duty to get that done.

Any time a scout asks me about a conference or completing a requirement and I have no choice but to delay it due to other troop obligations, I feel bad. These scouts have done their work and have earned the advancement. We need to do our part and not be a hurdle.

Hmm, very philosophical. I'm not sure I agree or disagree, but we all grow in our experiences with others. We'll see what you think next year.

Still, life has a way of making us hurry up and wait. Biblically, patience is a virtue, and a show of love. If your scouts know your heart, they are better for the wait.

This has been and interesting discussion because posters have been all over the field describing why the scoutmaster is wrong. He added an extra requirement. Really? As I've pointed out, we all add requirements in our own way. Are we all bad people? The SM is making the scout wait. OK, but life happens to all of us and more often than we realize, we can't jump at a moments notice for each and every request by a scout. Is there really harm in waiting. 

The SM is simply putting himself before the scout. He is not modeling the oath or law. He wants what he wants and is making the scouts dance to his tune (Sorry, my daughter just had a son and I find myself blurting out grandpa-isms). The SM is modeling selfishness. Or more to the Oath and Law, he is not doing his best to help other people, and he is not being trustworthy. His honor has lost integrity. 

Can the SM save himself? We are all human and I'm on record saying that humility is the greatest character trait an scouter can teach a scout. Can someone give the SM a chance to teach.

Barry

[Hawkwin]

11 hours ago, Chris1 said:

It may be time to get your District Commissioner and/or Council Advancement Committee. 

Thank you. That answered my next question. Neither the CC or the SM have responded to my emails on this topic.

[mashmaster]

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Thank you. That answered my next question. Neither the CC or the SM have responded to my emails on this topic.

Or give use the SM's email and we can berate him for you 🙂  Maybe the District Commissioner would be a better way though

[Hawkwin]

3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

Or give use the SM's email and we can berate him for you 🙂  Maybe the District Commissioner would be a better way though

I am calling the CC by phone tonight. Give them one more chance. I am unfortunately done with the SM on this issue.

If no resolution tonight, I will be forwarding all my previous communication to TPTB at the district with a request to speak to them by phone (I only have their email addresses). Regardless, I will encourage my scout to sign up for his BOR at the next meeting without the SM conference (as is his right) and I plan to sit in on the BOR (as is my right) just to make sure that this scouter conduct has not spread to individuals that would comprise his board.

This has been a good opportunity for me to talk to my scout about how adults can handle situations poorly when we are wrong and become unwilling to change course.

[Thunderbird]

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Hmm, very philosophical. I'm not sure I agree or disagree, but we all grow in our experiences with others. We'll see what you think next year.

Still, life has a way of making us hurry up and wait. Biblically, patience is a virtue, and a show of love. If your scouts know your heart, they are better for the wait.

This has been and interesting discussion because posters have been all over the field describing why the scoutmaster is wrong. He added an extra requirement. Really? As I've pointed out, we all add requirements in our own way. Are we all bad people? The SM is making the scout wait. OK, but life happens to all of us and more often than we realize, we can't jump at a moments notice for each and every request by a scout. Is there really harm in waiting. 

The SM is simply putting himself before the scout. He is not modeling the oath or law. He wants what he wants and is making the scouts dance to his tune (Sorry, my daughter just had a son and I find myself blurting out grandpa-isms). The SM is modeling selfishness. Or more to the Oath and Law, he is not doing his best to help other people, and he is not being trustworthy. His honor has lost integrity. 

Can the SM save himself? We are all human and I'm on record saying that humility is the greatest character trait an scouter can teach a scout. Can someone give the SM a chance to teach.

Barry

 

I don't think that it's always wrong to ask a Scout to wait.  The question is: how long before the Scout's wait would be considered to be unreasonable?  Earlier in this thread, @Hawkwin said that the reason his Scout couldn't attend the campouts was because the Scout would be out of the country and that this would delay his rank advancement until November (or later).  It's one thing for the Scoutmaster to have a preference to do these conferences on campouts for the higher ranks, but the SM seems to have made it an inflexible requirement instead of just a preference.  The Scout believes that he has completed all of the other requirements.  What is accomplished by making the Scout wait?

 

[TMSM]

9 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I am calling the CC by phone tonight. Give them one more chance. I am unfortunately done with the SM on this issue.

If no resolution tonight, I will be forwarding all my previous communication to TPTB at the district with a request to speak to them by phone (I only have their email addresses). Regardless, I will encourage my scout to sign up for his BOR at the next meeting without the SM conference (as is his right) and I plan to sit in on the BOR (as is my right) just to make sure that this scouter conduct has not spread to individuals that would comprise his board.

This has been a good opportunity for me to talk to my scout about how adults can handle situations poorly when we are wrong and become unwilling to change course.

Just a suggestion - Have your son send a note to the SM thanking him for the date of the SM conference but remind him that that wont work and he (the scout) is avaiable to meet tonight at x:00 pm at the town library. 

At the same time I would just go to the Council Advance Chair and District Commissioner and tell your story and ask for advice, forget the CC.

 

[Eagledad]

13 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

 

I don't think that it's always wrong to ask a Scout to wait.  The question is: how long before the Scout's wait would be considered to be unreasonable?  Earlier in this thread, @Hawkwin said that the reason his Scout couldn't attend the campouts was because the Scout would be out of the country and that this would delay his rank advancement until November (or later).  It's one thing for the Scoutmaster to have a preference to do these conferences on campouts for the higher ranks, but the SM seems to have made it an inflexible requirement instead of just a preference.  The Scout believes that he has completed all of the other requirements.  What is accomplished by making the Scout wait?

 

 

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

The SM is simply putting himself before the scout. He is not modeling the oath or law. He wants what he wants and is making the scouts dance to his tune (Sorry, my daughter just had a son and I find myself blurting out grandpa-isms). The SM is modeling selfishness. Or more to the Oath and Law, he is not doing his best to help other people, and he is not being trustworthy. His honor has lost integrity. 

Barry