How to comply ? New G2SS, YPT and (gasp) females !!

[walk in the woods]

54 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I did see any reply to this so if this reply is redundant, ignore it. Family Scouting refers to Cub Scouts, not Troops. If there are tag alongs at a Troop outing then that tag along is there is a person unaffiliated with the Troop regardless of their youth membership in cubs and they would be the responsibility of the attending parent.

Maybe.  The BSA uses the title Family Scouting to refer to all the changes implemented in Cubs now and Scouting BSA next February (https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf)

[TAHAWK]

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

I did see any reply to this so if this reply is redundant, ignore it. Family Scouting refers to Cub Scouts, not Troops. If there are tag alongs at a Troop outing then that tag along is there is a person unaffiliated with the Troop regardless of their youth membership in cubs and they would be the responsibility of the attending parent.

That is what it once meant.  As BSA's rep here likes to say, it's not 1954 anymore.  Once, Boy Scouting was the iconic program for boys.  Now it reaches lress than 5$ of eligible youth in our area.  For the new pursuit of membership see https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf

[Hawkwin]

2 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

Maybe.  The BSA uses the title Family Scouting to refer to all the changes implemented in Cubs now and Scouting BSA next February (https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf)

Ya, they muddied the water with that graphic.

I think my reply still remains valid though. Non-troop scouts (cubs of either gender) at a troop event are the responsibility of the parent and not the troop and if a scouter wants to bring his family to a troop event, the troop does not have to supply female leaders just because the family might include scouting females. They are not a member of the troop - they are not the responsibility of the troop.

[TAHAWK]

Muddy the waters"  BSA?  Say it isn't so.😃

[Eagledad]

14 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Ya, they muddied the water with that graphic.

I think my reply still remains valid though. Non-troop scouts (cubs of either gender) at a troop event are the responsibility of the parent and not the troop and if a scouter wants to bring his family to a troop event, the troop does not have to supply female leaders just because the family might include scouting females. They are not a member of the troop - they are not the responsibility of the troop.

I guess that is one way to deflect it. However, consider the scouting family of the ASM dad,  CC mom, daughter Sally and son Bob in two separate patrols, and little Cub Scout Susie all on the same Troop campout. I'm not sure anyone cares who is responsible for little Susie, it's a family fun scouting weekend.

Get two or three of those families involved..........  I think that's what Eagle94 referring to. 

For the last 100 years, family scouting and boy scouting were never two phrases mentioned together while discussing the boy scouting experience. I've heard it talked about quite a bit this year. Maybe that is a genie that should never have left the bottle.

The moderators are going to eventually switch out the Patrol Method forum to a RV discussion forum. And Religion will never get it's own forum.

Barry

[Hawkwin]

18 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I guess that is one way to deflect it.

"Deflect it?" I have no need to deflect anything. I am simply trying to answer the question in the OP, not re-argue a dead horse topic. The OP asked how a troop should handle such a situation. They should handle it the same way the handled it prior to any membership changes.

For the last 100 years, family scouting and boy scouting were never two phrases mentioned together while discussing the boy scouting experience. I've heard it talked about quite a bit this year. Maybe that is a genie that should never have left the bottle.

This isn't the first year that a scouter may have taken their family on a Troop scouting event. In my short time with a troop, I have seen scouters bring their spouses and their kids (sometimes the kids were girls) on a troop camp out. Nothing should change about how a troops handles those situations. If the girl is not a member of the troop, then they are the responsibility of the family that brought them.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Hawkwin

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

That is what it once meant.  As BSA's rep here likes to say, it's not 1954 anymore.  Once, Boy Scouting was the iconic program for boys.  Now it reaches lress than 5$ of eligible youth in our area.  For the new pursuit of membership see https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf

Ah 1954, when BSA HQ moved from NYC to New Brunswick, NJ (akin to Rome) where the Golden Age of Scouting began and millions joined. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[walk in the woods]

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

 if a scouter wants to bring his family to a troop event, the troop does not have to supply female leaders just because the family might include scouting females. 

The G2SS suggests otherwise:

Quote

Adult Supervision

(Effective October 1, 2018) Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided.

@DeanRx originally asked about a patrol meeting for an all boy unit.  If one of the two required over 21 leaders brings his scouting daughter to the patrol meeting, doesn't that trigger the requirement for a third registered over 21 years old female leader?  

With regards to the info graphic previously posted, it came from the BSAs family scouting website (https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/).  The site very clearly engaged both Cubs and Boy Scouts.

I suppose we'll know in a few years how it really plays out.  

[Eagledad]

4 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

 

 

What I said was that the phrase "family scouting" wasn't common in a boy scout discussion. Families may have camped with a troop, but it wasn't common enough to suggest family scouting.

The BSA has started something I'm not sure they can stop. Even if Family Scouting will only be reserved for the pack, I'm not sure parents will leave it there. Especially now that big sister is in one of the patrols. And, if membership is the goal, would National really want to restrict it.

Barry

[TAHAWK]

Accortding to BSA (for now):

"Age Guidekines"  

All Cubs may camp at a council-organized family camp,  Otherwise, Tiger, Bear & Wolf can not camp except at Pack campouts, and Webelos can do Den camping and can camp with a troop as a guest, but the troop has to invite and welcome them.

"If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers."

 

[Hawkwin]

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

The G2SS suggests otherwise:

@DeanRx originally asked about a patrol meeting for an all boy unit.  If one of the two required over 21 leaders brings his scouting daughter to the patrol meeting, doesn't that trigger the requirement for a third registered over 21 years old female leader?  

With regards to the info graphic previously posted, it came from the BSAs family scouting website (https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/).  The site very clearly engaged both Cubs and Boy Scouts.

I suppose we'll know in a few years how it really plays out.  

No, again, the OP asked about a registered female cub that was a tag along. G2SS refers to members of the troop (e.g. your quote, "every unit serving females)." A tag along, even one registered as a female cub, is not a member of the troop.

 

[walk in the woods]

3 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

No, again, the OP asked about a registered female cub that was a tag along. G2SS refers to members of the troop (e.g. your quote, "every unit serving females)." A tag along, even one registered as a female cub, is not a member of the troop.

 

I guess we'll see how it plays out.  There are two sentences there that could be interpreted in different ways.

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females.

So any unit serving females (girl pack, family pack, girl-only scout BSA unit, or co-ed Crew, Ship, or Post) must have a female adult registered leader.  I agree this is unit specific.

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth.

It's not clear to me that this statement is unit specific.  If the registered female cub is at the activity it seems like it would trigger the adult female over 21 requirement.  I suppose one could argue the tag-alongs aren't "involved" but that feels kinda weak to me.

[qwazse]

Let's not lose sight that "family scouting" remains pure and the unadulterated double-speak of promoters too chicken to say "BSA 4 girls in its 4th generation." As a result, we become the beneficiaries of unintended consequence -- like this back and forth about who gets invited to what activities.

Is "linked troops" a buzzword for coed? Some troops will take it that way. National is still keeping up appearances that CoEd is not an option for troops. How that holds up will depend on how we on the ground react when one of us has a tight-nit patrol of sharply uniformed boys and girls wanting to stick together.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Is "linked troops" a buzzword for coed? 

And the answer to that is yes....

Most telling is that the "linked troop" model was not part of the October announcement.  That was added later..... "Oh what a tangled web we weave / When first we practice to deceive."

Edited August 20, 2018 by Jameson76

[DeanRx]

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

No, again, the OP asked about a registered female cub that was a tag along. G2SS refers to members of the troop (e.g. your quote, "every unit serving females)." A tag along, even one registered as a female cub, is not a member of the troop.

 

Hawkwin-

 

I never specifically said a CUB girl... say you got a boys troop and a girls troop.  Sister A is a registered member in the girls troop.  She tags along to the public park for her brother's patrol meeting that happens to be attended by only 2 male adult leaders over 21 (which is another dead horse issue that needs continued beating)...

So, must the adults call in a female registered adult?  Ask the young lady to leave the immediate area of the park? Or is it of no concern of theirs because even though she is a BSA registered youth.... she doesn't "belong" to THEIR unit, so not their responsibility ?!?!

I'll do you one better.  Sister is over 16, drives kid brother to the patrol meeting.  When they go to leave, she is going to give kid brother and one of his friends a ride home from patrol meeting.  Does she require a registered, female, adult leader in the car with her?

The rules are well intended, but impossible to follow in real life situations.

Dean