"Serve actively in your troop"

[Hawkwin]

How do you define such when the position of authority is not within the troop?

Quote

While a First Class Scout, serve actively in your troop^[1] for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility

Den Chief is service to a Pack, not a troop but is an approved position of responsibility for this requirement. As a SM, what would you require of the scout in order to demonstrate that the scout has "serve[d] actively" enough to sign off on their Conference?

[AVTech]

Here is what we use as a guide:

Den Chief duties:
• Serve as the activities assistant at Den meetings
• Communicate regularly with the Pack Leaders to review the Den and Pack meeting plans
• If serving as a Webelos Den Chief, prepare boys to join Boy Scouting
• Project a positive image of Boy Scouting
• Know the purposes of Cub Scouting
• Encourage Cub Scouts to join a Boy Scout Troop upon graduation
• Help out at monthly Pack meetings
• Attends at least 2/3 of the den meetings/events during his service period
• Be a friend to the boys in the den
• Participate in Troop outings. Attendance requirement 75%
• Attend Troop meetings. Attendance requirement 75%
• Set a good example
• Wear the Class A uniform correctly to all regular Troop meetings and other events
• Wear the Class B uniform to all outings and other Troop activities
• Live by the Scout Oath and Law
• Show Scout Spirit

[fred johnson]

16 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Den Chief is service to a Pack, not a troop .... As a SM, what would you require of the scout in order to demonstrate that the scout has "serve[d] actively" enough to sign off on their Conference?

Den Chief is a service to the troop.  It promotes a healthy connection between the pack and the troop.  It is rightly a troop leadership position and it is a key one.

I would require nothing of the scout.  But I might regularly email the cub master or the den leader to see how the scout is doing.  

[NJCubScouter]

I am not sure whether this is a "substantive" question or a "procedural" question.  (Sorry, I can't turn off being a lawyer.)  If substantive, as in, what is a den chief supposed to do, I think AVTech has it covered.  If procedural, as in, what evidence do I need that the den chief has done his work in the den (which is what I think you were asking), we usually get a letter from the den leader.  I am not sure whether that is generated by the den leader or requested by the troop.  I know in my son's case the den leader put in the paperwork for my son to get the den chief "merit award" or whatever it is called, so when the award came in from council I think that was taken as sufficient evidence that he had done his job.

[malraux]

Taking a step back from the legalistic language, what's the goal or intent of the position of responsibility requirement? Its to show/develop leadership to others, and giving of your own time to serve, I would argue. Does being a Den Chief accomplish this? Sure, in a lot of ways more than some of the other PoR like librarian. The Den Chief is likely attending two meetings a week, is going to be called upon to teach directly a lot of skills, and should be involved with the pack leadership to plan meetings.So within that, a conversation with the relevant Den Leader should pretty well cover if the scout is showing up.

[Hawkwin]

22 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

Den Chief is a service to the troop.  It promotes a healthy connection between the pack and the troop.  It is rightly a troop leadership position and it is a key one.

I would require nothing of the scout.  But I might regularly email the cub master or the den leader to see how the scout is doing.  

I have to quibble a little bit. The Pack the Den Chief serves does not have to be in any way connected to the Pack (or vice versa). A Den Chief could chose to serve a pack that ends up sending all of their scouts to a different troop. In our area, Packs and troops are not so connected. It is not uncommon for scouts in the same den to choose different troops.

[Hawkwin]

14 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I am not sure whether this is a "substantive" question or a "procedural" question.  (Sorry, I can't turn off being a lawyer.)  If substantive, as in, what is a den chief supposed to do, I think AVTech has it covered.  If procedural, as in, what evidence do I need that the den chief has done his work in the den (which is what I think you were asking), we usually get a letter from the den leader.  I am not sure whether that is generated by the den leader or requested by the troop.  I know in my son's case the den leader put in the paperwork for my son to get the den chief "merit award" or whatever it is called, so when the award came in from council I think that was taken as sufficient evidence that he had done his job.

Thank you, yes it was procedural.

Since rank advancement only requires four months but the service award requires a full year of service, how do you handle those that meet the former but not the later?

[fred johnson]

11 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I have to quibble a little bit. The Pack the Den Chief serves does not have to be in any way connected to the Pack (or vice versa). A Den Chief could chose to serve a pack that ends up sending all of their scouts to a different troop. In our area, Packs and troops are not so connected. It is not uncommon for scouts in the same den to choose different troops.

Yep.  That happens.  He's still representing your troop and doing service for your troop.  Your troop can't survive if cub scouts do not join your troop.  As such, his job is critical.  But he can't be held accountable for the final choice of the parents.  Even if the pack is on the far side of town or next town over, it still counts.

[HelpfulTracks]

12 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I have to quibble a little bit. The Pack the Den Chief serves does not have to be in any way connected to the Pack (or vice versa). A Den Chief could chose to serve a pack that ends up sending all of their scouts to a different troop. In our area, Packs and troops are not so connected. It is not uncommon for scouts in the same den to choose different troops.

You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Den Chief serves the Troop by being a friend and guide to the den. He can do a great job and the Cubs can still choose to go elsewhere. However, he has introduced the Cubs to the Troop through his service. That service is for the Troop, even if it does not benefit them

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

 

Since rank advancement only requires four months but the service award requires a full year of service, how do you handle those that meet the former but not the later?

Simple, they do not earn the Den Chief Service Award. DCSA requires more than just showing up and meeting with the den. Requirements are here: http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/denchief.asp

1. Serve the pack faithfully for 1 full year.
2. Complete online Den Chief Training (or in person conducted by the council or district).
3. Know and understand the purposes of Cub Scouting.
4. Help Cub Scouts achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting.
5. Be the activities assistant in den meetings. (lead five songs, five stunts or skits, five games, five sports activities)
6. Set a good example by attitude and uniforming.(for a minimum of six months)
7. Be a friend to the boys in the den.
8. Take part in weekly meetings. (for a minimum of six months)
9. Assist the den at the monthly pack program.(at least three times)
10. Meet as needed with the adult members of the den, pack, troop, team, or crew.
11. Complete FOUR of these projects:
    1. Serve as a staff member of a special Cub Scouting event, such as a Scouting show, bicycle rodeo, etc.
    2. Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout day camp or resident camp.
    3. Advance one rank.
    4. Assist in recruiting three new Cub Scouts.
    5. Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts.
    6. Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop.
    7. Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity.
    8. Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Skipper, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief.

The information in MAROON is not in the requirements as listed in Boy Scout Requirements, but is in the details in the Den Chief Handbo

 

[Eagledad]

46 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

How do you define such when the position of authority is not within the troop?

Den Chief is service to a Pack, not a troop but is an approved position of responsibility for this requirement. As a SM, what would you require of the scout in order to demonstrate that the scout has "serve[d] actively" enough to sign off on their Conference?

Boy, if this requirement is challenging, ..........

The struggle with legalism is that it distracts away from the true intention of the requirement. Remember, scouting is about growth of character and integrity. Don't concern yourself with the details so much that you can't see the benefits of the responsibilities. Learn from the scout how he served. When the SM ask the questions in the right manner, the scout feels encouraged to brag about their experience. Along with a quick call from the Den leader, you will have more than enough for a productive SM Conference.

By the way, the way our troop sets up Den Chief's duties is we start with training them with the Den Leader together. It doesn't take very long (an hour) because all we are really doing is setting the expectations for each of them. Truth of the matter is Den Leaders are clueless of how to use the Den Chief, so they are very appreciative for the training. The Den Chief is the assistant, but basically runs 80% of the meeting when he gets up to full speed. The Den Leader learns to sit back and actually assist the Den Chief. Works very well once everyone learns the responsibilities and system.

Barry

 

[Eagledad]

44 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Thank you, yes it was procedural.

Since rank advancement only requires four months but the service award requires a full year of service, how do you handle those that meet the former but not the later?

I'm curious, how would you as a SM feel about the scout if he considered his responsibility with the den was completed after 4 months?

Barry

[T2Eagle]

In our troop, if you want credit towards advancement for a POR, there is a minimum attendance requirement of 50% for each type of activity.  Minimum, half of all troop meetings, half of all PLCs, half of all campouts.  For the Den Chief we would extend that to half of all pack meetings and half of all den meetings.

From there, managing the qualitative performance is left up to whoever the scout reports to.  For Den Chiefs, clearly the den or other pack leader determines what they want from the scout, some adults are very good at this, some less so, but beyond the scout being a good example it's really up to those adults how to utilize his talents.  

We find the attendance requirements really weed out the scouts who just aren't doing the job, and very few scouts actually ht the 50% mark, they generally are either substantially above or substantially below.  If a scout is there but just not doing the job well than that's treated as a learning experience for both the scout and whoever they report to. 

We virtually never deny advancement credit based on a retrospective performance review.  If a scout was there but doing the job so poorly that he shouldn't get credit than that means other folks also weren't doing their job in either helping him correct the problem or recognize that he should not be doing that job at that time.  We have on a couple occasions had a scout step down from a POR before the standard term was over because it was recognized he just couldn't do it well enough; in those rare occasions he gets credit for the time he did serve.  Besides performance, the other example for this is when a new extra curricular meant a scout just wasn't going to be able to be at meetings and events from that point forward, in those cases we also give the scout credit for time served before he had to step aside.

[T2Eagle]

10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I'm curious, how would you as a SM feel about the scout if he considered his responsibility with the den was completed after 4 months?

Barry

Way too few facts to answer as a hypothetical.  If a scout counted the days, hit 120 and said "that's it, time card punched, job done" we'd be having a pretty serious conversation.  On the other hand, the world turns: what looked like in mid August would be a great thing for everybody, might look very different in mid December as finals approach, other activities make their own demands, schedules change, etc.   

[Eagledad]

7 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

In our troop, if you want credit towards advancement for a POR, there is a minimum attendance requirement of 50% for each type of activity.  Minimum, half of all troop meetings, half of all PLCs, half of all campouts.  For the Den Chief we would extend that to half of all pack meetings and half of all den meetings.

I'm not judging, so don't take this question in that context; How do you answer to the "adding requirements" question?

Barry