10,000 Girl Cub Scouts

[Eagledad]

What is a "conditional scouter"?

Barry

[Eagledad]

52 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

What is a "conditional scouter"?

Barry

Never mind, I found it on Google.

Barry

[Jameson76]

On 8/20/2018 at 9:14 AM, Eagledad said:

What is a "conditional scouter"?

Barry

A new term trotted out (must have been included in some talking points as I heard the term from or local SE when he and I discussed the October announcement) that in my opinion is aimed at marginalizing any type of unhappiness with the changes.  In essence they are saying you are only a "conditional" scouter if your continued membership and support is there only if conditions do not change from when you joined or got involved in scouting.

That is a very poor term and assignment, because essentially everything we do in life is "conditional".  My company has hired me to do a job, I continue to work within my experience and that I can bring value.  If my employer changes those conditions, I may leave.  My wife and I got married, the assumed condition was monogamy (what being protestant and all), I am fairly certain if one of us changed that "condition" then the we might rightfully leave the marriage.

BSA has changed the conditions of the specific program I volunteer for and support.  I am free to make my decisions with regard to ongoing support.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Jameson76

[Eagledad]

30 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

A new term trotted out (must have been included in some talking points as I heard the term from or local SE when he and I discussed the October announcement) that in my opinion is aimed at marginalizing any type of unhappiness with the changes.  In essence they are saying you are only a "conditional" scouter if your continued membership and support is there only if conditions do not change from when you joined or got involved in scouting.

That is a very poor term and assignment, because essentially everything we do in life is "conditional".  My company has hire me to do a job, I continue to work within my experience and that I can bring value.  If my employer changes those conditions, I may leave.  My wife and I got married, the assumed condition was monogamy (what being protestant and all), I am fairly certain if one of use changed that "condition" then the we might rightfully leave the marriage.

BSA has changed the conditions of the specific program I volunteer for and support.  I am free to make my decisions with regard to ongoing support.

That was my first thought as well. All choices are, or should be, conditional on ethical principles and moral values. In fact, the point of scouts learning from their decisions in the program is developing habits of making choices conditional to the Oath and Law. 

My following 2nd thought was the term isn't scout like for a values program.

Thanks

Barry

[ianwilkins]

14 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

My following 2nd thought was the term isn't scout like for a values program.

"conditional scouter" sounds like a term used as a stick to beat people with. The sort of thing that would rile me somewhat I think.

[Eagle94-A1]

I stayed in the program as an ASM, OA chapter adviser, etc after earning Eagle so I could give back. But I am a "Conditional Scouter."

I became a professional, dealing with all the headaches, frustration and stress that job entails so I could make a difference. But I am a "Conditional Scouter."

Once I left the profession, I volunteered again, leaving my wife and later kids at home, so that others could have a Scouting Experience. But I am a "Conditional Scouter."

Instead of being just a DL for my sons, I picked up additional responsibilities on the district anc council level so that they and their friends could have a great time. So instead of being with them and doing things with them, I was running entire events. But I am a "Conditional Scouter."

When my district began losing district committee members due to changes in policies they did not agree with, I stuck around and tried to hold things together. I was doing 4 different district jobs, which again took time away from my family. But I am a "Conditional Scouter."

Yes, the term 'Conditional Scouter" is one to denigrate and insult those of use who care about the program, yet disagree with National. A lof of people, Scouts, parents, and Scouters, have reservations and concerns about the changes. We are hearing one set of things from national, but seeing just the opposite occuring with the early adopter Cub Scout packs, and those councils using Explorer Clubs to get a jump start on girls in Scouting. Funny thing is, at the town hall meeting, al lot of what I and others are seeeing, " joint meetings" and outright coed dens, predicted this would happen.

[Sentinel947]

I'm for sure a "conditional Scouter." If I need to reduce time volunteering with Scouts for work, family, friends, or the church, it happens. If my troop starts making programmatic changes I disagree with, it's my obligation to step aside vs create problems. If the BSA starts mandating policies or rules I can't live with, I again, have an obligation to step aside for the good of the organization and my own sanity. 

Sounds like a cudgel to bully people into doing things they don't want to do. 

I'm cautiously optimistic for what adding girls into the BSA will do for girls, and if my troop decides to launch a troop for girls, I'll help them with that. I volunteer on the council level for various things, and will continuing to do those programs.

 

[HashTagScouts]

I agree with the feelings that "conditional scouter" is offensive, and that it also can be twisted to suit any side of a disagreement as a slap to someone's face.  This is life- people disagree in life, it's just going to happen.  And life is all about choices.  if you were a scouter in a unit that suddenly vanquished the patrol method, took away decision-making from the youth, or otherwise completely distorted the program to it's own viewpoint, you have the choice to go along and make the best of it, stay and try to work to change it, or move on.  The same goes for the BSA overall.  Those who feel these most recent changes were too much and moved on, I wish them well and that they were not leaving, but I understand they are doing what they feel is best for them.  I'm not enthusiastic about these membership changes, but I still desire to see the youth I have worked with for these past several years succeed and reach their goals, so I don't feel I can just walk away from them or the BSA completely over my disagreement with the pundits at National.  Once this group of youth are gone from the program, I very likely will walk away.  That doesn't feel any different to me than the parent who dons a uniform to help their child out and puts it in the closet when they turn 18 or otherwise leave.  Not quite sure when "volunteer" became indentured servitude.

[walk in the woods]

Conditional Scouters.  We should get t-shirts....

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

Conditional Scouters.  We should get t-shirts....

Edited August 21, 2018 by Jameson76

[DeanRx]

Jameson... the T-shirt looks good... but gotta chance that font. It looks too much like the San Diego (now LA) Chargers logo font.... too recent and too painful for some of us

Then again, maybe its spot on... the Owners of the Chargers and the National office of BSA seem to treat their clients and fanbase about the same in recent years....

[DeanRx]

I'm honestly thinking about getting some sort of non-official "knot ribbon" made for folks to wear.  Kind of like some scouts and scouters wore "rainbow knots" pre membership standards change to symbolize their opposition to BSA's former membership policy?  Who's it?

[MattR]

I googled "conditional scouters" and "conditional scouter" (both in quotes) and got 6 hits, all of which are on this forum. Bing showed fewer. It seems to have started with a reference to something that someone else said.

Is it possible that we created our own thing that we can get angry about? Someone somewhere said something condescending and now we're blaming "them" for being un scout like. Maybe we should get back to dutch oven recipes or something else fun.

[Saltface]

23 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

I'm honestly thinking about getting some sort of non-official "knot ribbon" made for folks to wear.  Kind of like some scouts and scouters wore "rainbow knots" pre membership standards change to symbolize their opposition to BSA's former membership policy?  Who's it?

I'll buy. What's the knot going to be? Square knot with quick release (holds fast until the wrong string is pulled), thief knot (too much strain and it slips off)?

[an_old_DC]

41 minutes ago, MattR said:

I googled "conditional scouters" and "conditional scouter" (both in quotes) and got 6 hits, all of which are on this forum. Bing showed fewer. It seems to have started with a reference to something that someone else said.

Is it possible that we created our own thing that we can get angry about? Someone somewhere said something condescending and now we're blaming "them" for being un scout like. Maybe we should get back to dutch oven recipes or something else fun.

No. When news about girls in Boy Scouts first came down from National I voiced my opposition to a young DE who immediately called me a “conditional Scouter.” He is too young and inexperienced to have thought of that on his own, and I later heard that from senior professionals in the office. They are the same people who knew they would get push back from the “red coats” ...which the pros in our area also use in a demeaning manner.