JoeBob Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 If you go rogue, you may as well go Secret Society, too. Bring back the loincloths! Or is that a YPT issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 From the OA: Quote We know that lodges and chapters are frequently asked to perform Arrow of Light and crossover ceremonies for Cub Scout packs, which is an appropriate service in support of our packs. That said, we have had many complaints surrounding these ceremonies from various American Indian tribes due to the manner in which they are conducted as well as the inconsistent nature in which they are performed. Okay, then why not develop a process for improving the manner and consistency? This could be a win for scouts and native tribes. I wonder how many complaints they got compared to how many tribes are happy with what they see. They might have to ask about about who is happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 hours ago, mashmaster said: Interesting, I don't see this killing OA IMHO but I do see many disappointed. The chapter I was in was essentially dead when I became an Arrowman. No meetings, lack of communication, you name it. heck I think the election team came from another chapter so the lodge could meet goals. I tried to be active, got frustrated since no one showed up or communicated with me, and gave up on the OA. Fast forward 4 years, and the chapter was given a rebirth because of the ceremony team. That got people aware and interested in the OA. It got me back as an active member. I've used American Indian Affairs twice to either start a new chapter, or rebuild a dying one. Ceremonies inspire folks. Public ceremonies like the AOL, Crossover, and Call Out make people aware of the OA. These two scripts appear to turn an inspirational ceremony into ridiculous skit. And people wil be turned off of the OA. That is why I said it will kill the OA over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MattR said: From the OA: Okay, then why not develop a process for improving the manner and consistency? This could be a win for scouts and native tribes. I wonder how many complaints they got compared to how many tribes are happy with what they see. They might have to ask about about who is happy. That's the funny thing, many nations are happy with the OA. Many lodges have have worked with local nations. Heck I remember seeing a Tribal leader wearing his OA sash at their annual powwow when he found out Boy Scouts were going to be there and dance! And the OA was founded at a time when it was a federal offense to practice Native culture. OA was used as a means to preserve customs, traditions, and crafts. I know Arrowman who have assisted in gaining state and federal recognition of tribes. Now I will say that National has been trying to improve the situation and have been having classes on conducting research, building accurate regalia, etc., I know my local AIA guy was not a happy camper when he first heard this may happen because we have been improving as an organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 My lodge advisor said it was going to happen soon. I've been waiting for just over a year. I won't wait until they remove regalia from all ceremonies. But he still wants the chapter teams to do their Friday night summer camp Call-Out Ceremonies we've prepared for this year, as our lodge ceremony team is in disarray. This Friday night, one last time as their advisor, our chapter ceremony team will perform the call-out ceremony at camp. I've already informed all those needed, that I will then be done with the OA. I wish all the best, sst3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 @sst3rd, I hear ya. I know that ceremonies are not the focus of the OA. But they are the things that inspired us to do cheerful service and lead by example. I have seen and used ceremony teams as a way to inspire Scouts and Arrowman, and rebuild active chapters. When I became chapter advisor, the chapter was dead. No one knew or cared about the OA. All they saw us do was run the trading post at camporees. Starting a AOL/Cross Over ceremony team was one of the first things I did. It helped reignite the chapter. We went from doing only camporee trading posts to chapter work days at the local camp repairing structures, doing camp promotions, and doing service at the day camp and council family camp out. With public ceremonies in regalia taken from us, as well as they silly ceremony scripts they are telling us to use, I do not see the OA as viable in a few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Good news is the new script highlights the high adventure bases! 🤑 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said: Good news is the new script highlights the high adventure bases! 🤑 And what is the percentage of Scouts actually that go to a national HA base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prof Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 My local lodge posted about this on Facebook yesterday. The comments (about a dozen or so at the time) were all negative about the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said: And what is the percentage of Scouts actually that go to a national HA base? I read Walk in the woods post as sarcasm, but maybe he is looking for a glass quarter full. Still, I wonder if there is an opportunity here to bring honor back to OA by rehighlighting the camping and cheerful service of the program. Personally, I would push the minimum membership requirements back up to 13, maybe even 14 years of age to give scouts the time to develop the skills for an honor program. Then, try and wedge some of the mystery of the organization by restricting membership with higher minimal camping skills, cheerful service, and Living the Scout Oath and Law. Membership would be far from automatic for older scouts. Applicants would require resumes and witnesses. You would see fewer scouts with OA patches and sashes, but they would have the same respect of an Eagle. Such a radical application of scouting would be a challenge in the new Helicopter Family Scouting Program, but if it's done correctly and controlled with tradition, there might be something there. Barry Edited July 25, 2018 by Eagledad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Regarding the crossover ceremony itself - that is one of the hokiest, most cringe-inducing scripts I have ever read. The HA base plugs are simply awful, and it’s incredibly condescending. (”In my big, bright Scout voice”? What?) Few Scouts are going to be able to deliver that as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 @walk in the woods, I apologize for my comment. The sarcasm went over my head as I am a little distraught over this decision.. This decision has hit home on several levels. First and foremost, my youngest will be crossing over in February. His entire den wanted the OA to do the ceremony in full regalia. The regalia was well researched, and with the exceptions of the moccasins, 100% accurate. I know as I helped the ceremony team do the research and making the regalia. Now this cannot happen. And yes it passed muster with Native Americans attending ceremonies, and a Indian Lore MB class with the regalia set out for display. The other reason it hits home is that I was a ceremonialist and AIA chair as a youth. I was inspired the first time I saw the OA, at my own AOL and Crossover. I've had the privilege of performing those ceremonies and seeing Cub Scouts faces when they saw us in full regalia. My chapter was restarted because of the AOL/Crossover ceremonies. And as a chapter advisor starting a new chapter or restarting a dying one, I've used ceremonies and AIA to gain interest. My chapter is essentially dead again, and I have been asked to restart it again after a 10 year period. I've been thinking about taking the job again, but without the use of public ceremonies in full regalia, I do not think I will be able to get enough interest. Even those no interested in ceremonies got inspiration form them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I have no comments to make about the decision, but I am a bit put off by the way it was announced. They made it sound like this was an OA decision rather than a BSA decision. If the comments of OA members on this forum are a reflection of OA members in general, I would have to conclude that this decision was not made by OA. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, shortridge said: Regarding the crossover ceremony itself - that is one of the hokiest, most cringe-inducing scripts I have ever read. The HA base plugs are simply awful, and it’s incredibly condescending. (”In my big, bright Scout voice”? What?) Few Scouts are going to be able to deliver that as intended. It's the kind of thing even cubscouts will roll their eyes and laugh at. I'll bet a weeks pay that I could put five den chiefs in a room and they could write a script that is three times better in an hour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said: @walk in the woods, I apologize for my comment. The sarcasm went over my head as I am a little distraught over this decision.. Thank you but no apology is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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