Suspected Bullying, wwyd?

[WisconsinMomma]

Hi Scouters,

My family returned from summer camp and last night I was chatting with my husband.  He asked me how I would handle a bullying situation.

I said, the Scoutmaster needs to deal with it and you need to let the Scoutmaster and the CC know. 

He said, I'm an ASM, I'm responsible too.

I said, yes, make sure the SM and CC are on it. 

Anyway, we talked about it a little more and here is the situation as I understand it.  

An older scout in leadership may be bulling younger scouts. But there is very little to no evidence. My husband said he had another kid in a headlock in a summer camp in years past.  The situation seems to be one where, the older Scout is smart and only bullies when there are no adults present, and no one is seeing anything.  Also the scout's father is in Troop leadership. My husband thinks we may have lost a few younger scouts if they were bullied in years past, but again there is no real evidence.  

I encouraged my husband to work with the CC.  Our SM position is in transition.  

I also told my husband that I feel that this older Scout cannot be left alone in the future.  As much as we say we don't want helicopter parents, if there is suspected bullying then I think that the adults must ensure that there is no opportunity for a kid to get away with harassing another kid.   If there is bullying, it is certain that other Scouts witnessed it, but nothing has been said about this scout (in leadership, and his Dad is in leadership too, so who are they going to talk to?)   So this situation needs to be monitored for a while.  The kid is innocent unless there is evidence but it is a challenging situation. 

Apparently one of the parents of a new scout has sent an email with a concern re: bullying.

I also let my husband know that the Scout Executive was a resource.

I am sure you have better advice because it is hard when you are close to a situation and the people.  What do you recommend?  

Thank you!!

[Cubmaster Pete]

YPT states that you have to take it at Face Value. So have any kids reported it, at any time?

YPT also states that something must be done, and if you have parents (even if one said something, they all know) then there is an issue that needs to be dealt with NOW. Nobody wants to be accused of doing nothing about correcting a problem.

If the CC, SM, this scout and his father sat down and had a neutral conversation (Have you seen anything, do you know of anyone, etc...) maybe that would work better than accusing him of bullying, given lack of evidence. Or, get the whole troop together and have a conversation about it. Then he will know that troop leadership is watching behavior, and it may stop. 

If nothing is done, he may see this as a free pass to continue.

[ParkMan]

The first thing I'd do is have a discussion about the concerns among the core leadership team - CC, SM (I think you said the position is in transition), key ASMs, etc.  Everyone should get on the same page that there is a concern and should share what they know.

After that, I'd do 3 three things:

1) talk with the scout(s) who may have been bullied.  As what happened and listen.

2) talk with the scout that has been accused.  Talk about bullying and that some people think he's being a bully.  Discuss what has happened to date and what he thinks he has done.  See if he thinks he's a bully.  But, make clear that under no circumstances is bullying condoned..

3) talk with the Scout's parents.  They are your partners in this, talk to them that way.  Let them know that concerns have been raised and that you're digging into them.

As I see it, our job as Scout leaders is to create an environment where bullying does not occur.  But, when it does occur, then we need to figure out what happened and work with the kids involved so that it stops.  So, I think that how one handles bullying is just as important as trying to prevent it in the first place.  I'm inclined to treat a first offense as a learning process for the scout involved.  Of course, if the bullying was particularly awful or was harmful, there are limits to treating it as a learning experience.  But the scout needs to know - there is no second conversation.

[qwazse]

Well, in general I advise guys that most days it is a good idea to listen to their wives!

SMs often find themselves correcting youth leaders' behavior. And they can't correct what they don't know about, so yes the SM should be informed. In this case, that would include the outgoing SM and incoming SM.

The scout needs to be confronted that his actions are making new scouts feel unwelcome. That situation is unbecoming of a leader, and he needs to make amends.

How he does that depends on your troop culture the level and recurrence of the offense and the age of the scout. Older scouts (SPL's and JASM's) might even need to apologize to the parent. This isn't that odd. We had a scout with a behavior disorder and he had to work very hard to control his emotions, which meant he had to apologize in front of the whole troop regularly and by the time he was a leader, he had to set boundaries for himself regarding stressful situations and relaxing situations.

If a boy is at the point where he needs constant adult supervision, he needs to be assigned a different leadership position.

As a dad, I've had to call my kids on the carpet about how they interacted with their friends. Sometimes there were blurry lines because they were all in my crew, so my position as their advisor came into play. I was always grateful when my friends wouldn't put my kid on some kind of pedestal and would let me know when there were issues to deal with.

Finally, they boys need to feel comfortable with letting scouters know when a leader misbehaves. The method is "leadership development". That means sometimes they will do things wrongly. Correcting them will enable everyone to grow and learn.

[WisconsinMomma]

Great feedback, keep it coming.  Dad is Scoutmaster who is finishing up his term and he's a good Scoutmaster.  Incoming Scoutmaster is good, too we have a lot of really good adults in the troop. I am not sure if kid is SPL now, he was SPL earlier, and they just had elections (I would have a hard time imagining bad behavior getting voted in, but, it's very possible).  I will share all your great feedback with my husband later today.  Hopefully they'll have an easy time working through it all. 

[Cubmaster Pete]

10 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I would have a hard time imagining bad behavior getting voted in, but, it's very possible.

Oh it happens. Seen it as both a scout and a scouter.

I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but do not rule out intimidation as a reason why he was elected....

[David CO]

1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I also told my husband that I feel that this older Scout cannot be left alone in the future.

This is a sure-fire way of guaranteeing that older scouts will leave the unit. Word will get around that the parents are anxious about their kids hanging out with older boys, even if there is "little to no evidence" that any wrongdoing is actually taking place.

 

 

[MattR]

I suspect a lot of scouts know exactly what is going on. The solution involves getting them to talk about it but the challenge is they are very hesitant to talk about it. If what happened to a scout was a shock, as in he can't even imagine it happening, then that scout will have a hard time talking about it. Giving them examples of what you've seen in life as a kid, in detail, might let them understand that it's okay to talk about it. You might find out that the older scout just doesn't realize how he comes across or you might find out nothing really happened, or you might find out this kid needs to go, be put on a short leash, or some such issue. Either way, the SM needs to make the final decision on that one.

If something is happening and the adults know about it and let it go then they've lost all credibility. If there is something going on then the older scout needs to be confronted. If that scout understands that what he did was wrong then this can be a win for everyone. If the kid denies it under convincing evidence to the contrary, then the SM gets to earn his pay. It's one of those things that I did not like dealing with at all. But where the older scout sees the light it was good. Scouts made mistakes and learned from them.

[WisconsinMomma]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

This is a sure-fire way of guaranteeing that older scouts will leave the unit. Word will get around that the parents are anxious about their kids hanging out with older boys, even if there is "little to no evidence" that any wrongdoing is actually taking place.

 

Yes, but we can't let an 11 or 12 year old fend for himself against a 16 o 17 year old, either.   The kid's dad is the retiring Scoutmaster and the kid will be going for Eagle scout probably within the year, very smart, athletic kid, ambitious. It is a bit delicate.  But there is a complaint from the parent of a young scout so that's a legitimate starting point for investigating the issue. I imagine that if bullying is happening, it's a bit of alpha male pecking order type posturing, who's strong, who's on top and who's not strong and not on top. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by WisconsinMomma

[Eagledad]

Why isn't the ASM confronting the Scoutmaster/parent? Or, confronting the outgoing Scoutmaster/parent and incoming Scoutmaster? They need to know what is going on so they don't appear to be last, and so they can get on top of it. This may be a simple misunderstanding, but it needs quick and direct attention because the "bullying" word is being thrown freely around. At the very least it's housekeeping. At the very most change is required. 

Someone already mentioned it, but the troop needs develop a culture of openess. That means the scouts need to feel encouraged and safe to stop other scouts, and adults from bad decisions. The hard part here is the two main leaders happen to be directly or indirectly involved. That creates a difficult system of accountability at the top level. If the scouts can't trust their SPL, they typically go to the SM. But in this case..............

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

Hi Eagledad, it's fresh news, like in the last 24 hours, so yes, they need to get on it. 

[Eagledad]

Ahh! thanks

[ParkMan]

FWIW

We see all kinds of mistakes in Scouting - that's part of why we have Scouting.  Usually we're seeing mistakes being a Scout, or being a Camper, or whatever outdoor skill is involved.

Sometimes kids make mistakes at being a person.  For whatever reason, a Scout starts going off the rails in terms of how he treats others.  These kind of things can end up being really positive for the bully too.  So, while it's human nature to be apprehensive about dealing with these kinds of issues, I'd be less confrontational and look at is as teaching yet another lesson to the Scout involved.  This might be a lesson that the Scout carries with him for years, if not the rest of his life.

[WisconsinMomma]

Thanks for the replies everyone, the guys have a plan to talk with both families.  Just keep them in your prayers, hopefully it will all resolve well.