Denied a court of honor.

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

Here is what I want to answer on and cant find a way to do it so Im copying and pasting.

This all sounds a bit weird to me. If I were to guess what is happening I would say that someone on the committee for scoutmaster or other powerful individual in The Troop decided that The Troop should not take the time and expense to plan a court of honor 4 an 18 year old who has been out of the troop and not active in the unit since aging  out a year ago. Scoutmaster then goes to insinuate the decision came from Council and the truth is just following that.

Is it reasonable or correct for a troop to make such a decision? I don't know for sure. Perhaps there are Financial and time restrictions on the troop that they feel the cost and time and Personnel Resources required for a court of honor are not in the overall interest or capability of the troop at this point. If this is the case I still cannot believe that the actions taken are appropriate. A better line of action might be to explain the Troop resource constraints and ask for the scout or his family to take on more of the planning or financial responsibilities of putting on the court of honor. The other option would be to offer to present and recognize the Eagle at a normal troop court of honor and if the Scout or family wanted more than it was up to them to go above and beyond that.

  Now for my response.

yes, obviously its someone of power making the decision.

Next, Its not about time or expense here.

My son finished everything on his 18th birthday June 9th. Complete. BOR was in October. Next is ECOH.  Like e v e r y other boy in the troop, most dont finish till their 18th BD.  then BOR then a ECOH. all in timely fashion for everyone.... well except my son.

With that said. THEY WILL NOT give my son a reason for this. Regardless, they should give my son a reason,. and FYI:  they just had a court of honor for a boy who just made eagle.. so I say... ITS NOT FINANCIAL>

 

The thing is the EBOR, unless requested an exception from National, has to be done within 30 days of the Eagle's 18th birthday.  

[Cubmaster Pete]

Someone at the district level or council level does not deny an ECOH. They have nothing to do with them. The issue is at your troop level. 

Your SM is lying to you, plain and simple. And if he told you why HE is denying the troop the be involved he or someone at your unit is at fault.

[shortridge]

3 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

At this point, I'll probably do my own ECOH.  Just getting addresses and names of scouts in the troop present and past will be difficult because heck.... the world isnt what it was 30 years ago.  lol  I'll have to rely on the SM.

So I have to ask this. Apologies in advance if it comes across as overly aggressive.

Is this your CoH? Or is it your son’s?

What does your son want?

Why is your son not taking the lead in organizing it, if a CoH is what he wants?

What is your motivation in pursuing this and seeking to force the troop to do something?

Are you driven by what your son truly wants, or by your own desire to avenge a perceived insult to your child and family by the troop?

Why does your son not reach out to his friends and former patrolmates for their addresses and contacts for the invitations?

If he’s living at home, why did your son wait nine months to reach out again about a CoH?

You seem intent to pursue a scorched-Earth approach with this. The claims of possible discrimination and the immediate backing off when questioned also raise a lot of issues. What do you see as the real endgame? What does your son want to be the endgame?

It might be best for your family to cook up some hot dogs and burgers for your son and his friends, do a brief informal ceremony, and move on with your lives.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by shortridge

[SSF]

26 minutes ago, shortridge said:

So I have to ask this. Apologies in advance if it comes across as overly aggressive.

Is this your CoH? Or is it your son’s?

What does your son want?

Why is your son not taking the lead in organizing it, if a CoH is what he wants?

What is your motivation in pursuing this and seeking to force the troop to do something?

Are you driven by what your son truly wants, or by your own desire to avenge a perceived insult to your child and family by the troop?

Why does your son not reach out to his friends and former patrolmates for their addresses and contacts for the invitations?

If he’s living at home, why did your son wait nine months to reach out again about a CoH?

You seem intent to pursue a scorched-Earth approach with this. The claims of possible discrimination and the immediate backing off when questioned also raise a lot of issues. What do you see as the real endgame? What does your son want to be the endgame?

It might be best for your family to cook up some hot dogs and burgers for your son and his friends, do a brief informal ceremony, and move on with your lives.

 

The OP is seeking guidance. Pretty sure she's not looking for pettiness or your judgment

[bearess]

1 minute ago, SSF said:

The OP is seeking guidance. Pretty sure she's not looking for pettiness or your judgment

It’s very hard to give guidance to the OP because they are so unclear.  The entire story has more questions than answers.

Almost eighteen year old earns Eagle.  Ok, got it.  EBOR is delayed well past the thirty day mark.  Was that approved by national?  Is this kid really an Eagle?  Kid is at home, but doesn’t reach out about a COH till summer.  Why?  Troop has held other Eagle COH in this time.  Did the kid attend?  Why wasn’t his included with the others?  Scoutmaster says council has denied the COH.  That’s not councils role.  Was the SM lying?  Did the kid misunderstand?  Something else?  Mom/Dad alleges discrimination.  Why?  On what basis?  Nobody seems to have considered Mom/Dad hosting the COH.  Again, why?  Finally, Mom/Dad can’t find the address for POTUS online?  Or a sample COH script?  

Also, the weirdness of threatening legal action over what amounts to a party.  I’m a teacher.  For each student in my home room, we do birthday breakfast on their birthday.  I pick up a coffee cake and juice, the kid wears a birthday hat.  If I chose not to do that for one kid— sure, that’s mean.  But it’s not illegal, and, assuming I didn’t target the kid because they are a member of a protected class, it’s not going to impact my job.  OP seems to believe a troop run COH is his son’s right, and, well, it isn’t.  It’s something nice the troop chooses to do.  That’s the biggest question for me— the entire thread from OP seems entitled and helpless.  Are those traits carrying over to Scouts?  How had that affected perception of the kid?  How has that influenced the kid’s actions?  What’s the source of the bad blood that led to the situation?

[Mich08212]

21 minutes ago, SSF said:

The OP is seeking guidance. Pretty sure she's not looking for pettiness or your judgment

Thank you so much SSF.  You are absolutely correct. Guidance is exactly what Im looking for. ❤️

 

[SSF]

7 minutes ago, bearess said:

It’s very hard to give guidance to the OP because they are so unclear.  The entire story has more questions than answers.

Almost eighteen year old earns Eagle.  Ok, got it.  EBOR is delayed well past the thirty day mark.  Was that approved by national?  Is this kid really an Eagle?  Kid is at home, but doesn’t reach out about a COH till summer.  Why?  Troop has held other Eagle COH in this time.  Did the kid attend?  Why wasn’t his included with the others?  Scoutmaster says council has denied the COH.  That’s not councils role.  Was the SM lying?  Did the kid misunderstand?  Something else?  Mom/Dad alleges discrimination.  Why?  On what basis?  Nobody seems to have considered Mom/Dad hosting the COH.  Again, why?  Finally, Mom/Dad can’t find the address for POTUS online?  Or a sample COH script?  

Also, the weirdness of threatening legal action over what amounts to a party.  I’m a teacher.  For each student in my home room, we do birthday breakfast on their birthday.  I pick up a coffee cake and juice, the kid wears a birthday hat.  If I chose not to do that for one kid— sure, that’s mean.  But it’s not illegal, and, assuming I didn’t target the kid because they are a member of a protected class, it’s not going to impact my job.  OP seems to believe a troop run COH is his son’s right, and, well, it isn’t.  It’s something nice the troop chooses to do.  That’s the biggest question for me— the entire thread from OP seems entitled and helpless.  Are those traits carrying over to Scouts?  How had that affected perception of the kid?  How has that influenced the kid’s actions?  What’s the source of the bad blood that led to the situation?

Bearess, I don't disagree with you at all about most of what you shared. Yes, there are a lot of gaping holes and inconsistencies to this and it does appear (based on what's been shared and the apparent timeline) that the scout's EBOR was held after his 18th birthday...raising question as to whether or not he did actually earn the rank.

All of that said though, I thought the response that I responded to was extremely condescending and mean spirited...I mean, seriously, how can anyone say ..."have some burgers and move on with your lives"...completely uncalled for

[Mich08212]

12 minutes ago, bearess said:

It’s very hard to give guidance to the OP because they are so unclear.  The entire story has more questions than answers.

Almost eighteen year old earns Eagle.  Ok, got it.  EBOR is delayed well past the thirty day mark.  Was that approved by national?  Is this kid really an Eagle?  Kid is at home, but doesn’t reach out about a COH till summer.  Why?  Troop has held other Eagle COH in this time.  Did the kid attend?  Why wasn’t his included with the others?  Scoutmaster says council has denied the COH.  That’s not councils role.  Was the SM lying?  Did the kid misunderstand?  Something else?  Mom/Dad alleges discrimination.  Why?  On what basis?  Nobody seems to have considered Mom/Dad hosting the COH.  Again, why?  Finally, Mom/Dad can’t find the address for POTUS online?  Or a sample COH script?  

Also, the weirdness of threatening legal action over what amounts to a party.  I’m a teacher.  For each student in my home room, we do birthday breakfast on their birthday.  I pick up a coffee cake and juice, the kid wears a birthday hat.  If I chose not to do that for one kid— sure, that’s mean.  But it’s not illegal, and, assuming I didn’t target the kid because they are a member of a protected class, it’s not going to impact my job.  OP seems to believe a troop run COH is his son’s right, and, well, it isn’t.  It’s something nice the troop chooses to do.  That’s the biggest question for me— the entire thread from OP seems entitled and helpless.  Are those traits carrying over to Scouts?  How had that affected perception of the kid?  How has that influenced the kid’s actions?  What’s the source of the bad blood that led to the situation?

I find this very hard not to answer because yes I am looking for guidance.

I made myself as clear as I could considering that the troop as been so non responsive themselves.

Lets bullet point.

• Son turned 19 June 9th 2017. Same day he handed in paperwork for project and work book. WHY? because the troop twiddled their thumbs as my son asked for guidance during the whole project and before right after he made Life. My son did not understand when the workbook should have been completed, therefore I took the reigns at that point. Again, the troop was very laid back.
• EBOR?  How Am I supposed to know when the thing was to be done???  It was done in October. I didnt know there was a time limit but did find it strange that they didnt do it much sooner than they did. Again, another laid back situation.
• Approved by National?  How am I supposed to know? The Troop is so laid back that they are going backwards.
• Yes my son is an Eagle. He finally was given the wallet card and certificate in a plastic bag recently.
• My son did reach out several times about COH.  Did not hear a peep until recently. (come to find out the SM had a bout with cancer) Still .... Someone should have contacted my son at this point.
• Yes, My son attends all functions.
• Yes Scout master said//... QUOTE "Council denied the COH" with no reason. He says He's not privy to.??
• No my son did not misunderstand. My son is much smarter than most adults I know!!
• I allege discrimination because look at the writing on the wall.  One of the Leaders is a committee chair.  And My gut and intuition tells me that its Him causing the rukous. His name is Doug. Hes given my son trouble in the past and has been out right rude and nasty not only to me but my husband that has met him but only ONE TIME!!  So yeah... My son is very very thin and cant do much physical activity... He has been a victim of bullying. This Doug is one of them.
• Next, I have recently talked with a council member and he told me I can do my own COH BUT I cannot MC it, if thats what you mean by hosting.
• Of course I can find the POTUS online etc etc... I have no idea what the Troop does.. they are the ones that write the letters to all these people.  They always have.
• I understand that my son can choose to have a COH or not. I believe since hes been so active and hard working with the troop and been in since he was 6 years old that he should have one. Its an honor to become Eagle that Most quit way before they even get there.
• Thats great that its a nice thing that the troop does, theyve done it for e v e r y single eagle that comes through. but my Son? no. Really??? Whats up with that.
• As for bad blood?  Lets go back to Doug.. The Boy wonder Adult here. Throwing around his weight thinking hes king sh**.   My son has always been respectful and held his tongue whenever this man or should I say mouse, has ever belittled him.

And Now... no COH.  Why? because this jackass named Doug has got a stick up his butt for my son and theres no reason for it.  it sickens me.

So is that enough explanation for you bearess??? hmmm?

[Mich08212]

15 minutes ago, SSF said:

Bearess, I don't disagree with you at all about most of what you shared. Yes, there are a lot of gaping holes and inconsistencies to this and it does appear (based on what's been shared and the apparent timeline) that the scout's EBOR was held after his 18th birthday...raising question as to whether or not he did actually earn the rank.

All of that said though, I thought the response that I responded to was extremely condescending and mean spirited...I mean, seriously, how can anyone say ..."have some burgers and move on with your lives"...completely uncalled for

Hey SSF... I just bullet pointed everything for bearess. This should clear up all those questions.

Again, My son turned 18 06/09/99   the same day the paperwork was handed in. The last day to get it in.  And to my knowledge, there has been many who have handed paperwork in on their 18th b-day.   So thats the reason the EBOR was done after his birthday,  But they wait so long after to have it?? Then never respond to a COH? until finally a week ago??

[bearess]

Well, no, it doesn’t answer all my questions.  But that’s OK.  In your answer you’ve insulted a committee member, made excuses for your son (he’s too thin to do physical activity???), brushed off someones battle with cancer, and said you had to take over his Eagle workbook.  It sounds like your son and his Troop had come to a mutually toxic relationship.  Better to do an ECOH on your own and move on to the next chapter.  I can’t imagine how this could end in a way that satisfies all parties.

[Mich08212]

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

So I have to ask this. Apologies in advance if it comes across as overly aggressive.

Is this your CoH? Or is it your son’s?

What does your son want?

Why is your son not taking the lead in organizing it, if a CoH is what he wants?

What is your motivation in pursuing this and seeking to force the troop to do something?

Are you driven by what your son truly wants, or by your own desire to avenge a perceived insult to your child and family by the troop?

Why does your son not reach out to his friends and former patrolmates for their addresses and contacts for the invitations?

If he’s living at home, why did your son wait nine months to reach out again about a CoH?

You seem intent to pursue a scorched-Earth approach with this. The claims of possible discrimination and the immediate backing off when questioned also raise a lot of issues. What do you see as the real endgame? What does your son want to be the endgame?

It might be best for your family to cook up some hot dogs and burgers for your son and his friends, do a brief informal ceremony, and move on with your lives.

 

No problem I understand,   I replied to bearess with his rude comments but bullet pointed everything clearly.

Yes of course this is my Sons COH.  My Son wants one.

He has no idea how to organize it and as a former event planner, he finds that I can do this very efficiently so in lieu of this I was asking how to actually do it. Getting the names and addresses and things. Because, the Troop has always done this. I dont even know what a letter would look like.

My motivation is that my son gave all of his life to scouts since he was 6 and to earn the honor of Eagle. A very Proud moment.  You dont think your son should have a COH ... If this was your situation?

Im not going to force these guys but I should say there is a ring leader who has bullied my son for several years and to top the cake is on the council and is committee chair. IDK what his problem is but this seriously needs to be addressed. And yes it is an insult. You dont think so?

The guys he hung with have crossed into Eagle themselves and are not present at meetings any longer. the SM knows how to reach them. There are knew younger boys from the 6th grade there now. My son doesnt know them. Most often after high school, boys just go into their own little worlds and dont keep in touch like girls do.

Patrol mates have moved on too... not with troop anymore.  Most all move on.

My son didnt wait 9 months.  Hes been reaching out with no answer until last week,.

The end game. To celebrate and have a COH ceremony that my son should have after all these years of hard work.  Its actually simple.

Informal ceremony?  that would be a party. No such thing as an informal ceremony. 

Its either a ceremony or its a party.   We've had our share of parties.

Lets look at it this way for a moment....

Its like graduating from College with a MBA, being given your diploma in a plastic shopping bag and saying hell, you can go to the cap and gown ceremony have a good life heres your diploma, bye.

really??   You'll want to know why and it better be a damn good reason. and to find out that a Dean of schools didnt like you so you are missing out on something that you deserve to be recognized for.  and, they have the last word?   really?

Thats how I look at it.

My son deserves a reason and Im looking for a little bit of help putting this together.

[Mich08212]

3 minutes ago, bearess said:

Well, no, it doesn’t answer all my questions.  But that’s OK.  In your answer you’ve insulted a committee member, made excuses for your son (he’s too thin to do physical activity???), brushed off someones battle with cancer, and said you had to take over his Eagle workbook.  It sounds like your son and his Troop had come to a mutually toxic relationship.  Better to do an ECOH on your own and move on to the next chapter.  I can’t imagine how this could end in a way that satisfies all parties.

Really? I read every word and bullet pointed everything for your questions.

Whats all your questions then??

Insulted a committee member... ROFLMAO.. thats really comical.  The man has done nothing but belittle and bully my son since he started in the troop in 6th grade.  Seriously? Whemn did this guy become God??

Excuees? For my son?   Listen up here. I certainly dont make excuses for ANYONE.  My son has had a physical disability since he was born. So you have some nerve.

I never brushed off the cancer. I simply gave you your answer. Why? Would you like a story book on on that too?

I did not take over his work book. Heres what I said: My son did not understand when the workbook should have been completed, therefore I took the reigns at that point. Again, the troop was very laid back.

I did not say I took over his workbook. I had to take the reigns meaning I had to get some answers from the SM about it.  My son did the same.

No kidding really? do a ECOH on my own? Thats what Ive been saying in this thread for a day or so now.  Of course I will step up to the plate and do what I can.

[SSF]

31 minutes ago, Mich08212 said:

Hey SSF... I just bullet pointed everything for bearess. This should clear up all those questions.

Again, My son turned 18 06/09/99   the same day the paperwork was handed in. The last day to get it in.  And to my knowledge, there has been many who have handed paperwork in on their 18th b-day.   So thats the reason the EBOR was done after his birthday,  But they wait so long after to have it?? Then never respond to a COH? until finally a week ago??

Mich, I can truly and sincerely empathize with what your son and your family are going through and I'm so very sorry that this has happened. 

I feel your pain and I know that it may be tempting to hire an attorney, but I don't think that's the way to go,; especially if your son may have an interest in maintaining a good rapport with his current troop, and possibly becoming an Assistant Scoutmaster in the near future.

Regarding the ECOH, I know that it's not what you want to hear...but it would probably be best to organize one on your own. It can be formal and perhaps rather than focusing on the troop, invite family and friends and those who truly supported your son's advancement.

I do hope you can find some resolution to this and if nothing else, your son should be very proud of what he's accomplished.

Edited July 20, 2018 by SSF
removed "informal"

[shortridge]

If you need advice on how to write a letter, you can find that any number of places online. There is no official Scout letter template. Is it a ceremony? A party? It can be either, whatever the Scout wants.

I apologized in advance if my questions seemed aggressive. I’m pretty close to walking that back. What you describe sounds like a toxic troop situation, but your language and approach are not helping things. Consider the way you have presented things here; if someone brought these complaints to you in this manner, claiming discrimination and insulting various people you volunteer with, would you be sympathetic?

You have been given plenty of guidance in this thread. If you don’t like what you have been told, that’s on you. Plan the CoH, run it, and move on. I fail to see the purpose behind the huge amount of emotional energy that you are expending on this, especially since neither you nor your son are continuing in Scouting.

[bearess]

Mich, I’m also sorry this is causing you such stress.  However, you’ve become very aggressive in response to fairly reasonable questions— "name calling  and unscoutlike" (edit - RS) for example.  I have to say that the more you post, the more I believe that the reason for the bad blood between your son and the troop may be related to your manner of handling conflict.  I don’t want to get into the holes that remain in your story— I’m pretty smart too 😉 and I can figure out the gist of it at this point.  Best of luck to your son as he moves through college.

Edited July 20, 2018 by RememberSchiff
unscoutlike language