Denied a court of honor.

[shortridge]

Again: Your son is not being denied anything. A CoH is optional. Your unit is choosing to not organize one for your son. They cannot deny it. Nor is it likely that the council will get involved. National will probably not respond, either. This is a unit matter.

Again: What is your goal here? Do you want to have a COH that is meaningful to honor and recognize your son’s accomplishments? Or do you want to punish someone for what you see as an unfair decision? I’m getting more the latter vibes from your comments.

35 minutes ago, allangr1024 said:

There is still something not being said here.  Why do you think there is discrimination on the part of the committee members?  Age?  Gender? Political persuasion?  Religious beliefs?  Past behavior?  Has there been ANY communication between this scout or his family and the leaders of the troop.  This is not coming out of the blue.  Tell us everything about the scout and the troop.  There is an animosity here that is still unexplained.

I agree. This needs explaining if you want better insight from these forums.

[Mich08212]

41 minutes ago, allangr1024 said:

There is still something not being said here.  Why do you think there is discrimination on the part of the committee members?  Age?  Gender? Political persuasion?  Religious beliefs?  Past behavior?  Has there been ANY communication between this scout or his family and the leaders of the troop.  This is not coming out of the blue.  Tell us everything about the scout and the troop.  There is an animosity here that is still unexplained.

IDK if there is discrimination and thats why I'm going to get to the bottom of this once and for all.

And there certainly hasnt been any past bad behavior coming from my son. I do know a couple of the scouts that became eagle that have had bad behavior and still had COH's. I do not know one Eagle from this troop that has not been denied a COH.  So it seems, my son is being singled out for some reason that I am seeking answers to.

My son has reached out after attaining Eagle about the COH.  NOT A PEEP until a couple of days ago when his SM wanted a sit down to discuss it after he finally answered after months of trying to find out how we move forward with a COH.  Thats when my son found out that there will be no COH.

What I can tell you and I suspect is a few months before and during working on his eagle project, that an email was simply sent asking how we could speed up the process and if there was anything we could do because the troop was twiddling there thumbs on necessary things to be done before my sons 18th birthday. It was a mere question that was asked.  a simple yes or no answer would have sufficed but one of them came back yelling and taking offense to it.  BTW, I was the one that asked the question.  I was curious about the process.

Seriously, if this is the cause.. they have a lot of growing up to do.

[SSScout]

At face, this is bizarre.  The Unit, District, Council all must give their imprimatur to the Eagle rank.  If the Scout met the requirements, all the signatures are there, there can be no argument.

The Troop and the family design and hold the Court of Honor. It can be as formal and ornate as desired or as simple and intimate as wished. One of my favorites was a campout on the grandparents' farm. Participants/audience had to hike in several hundred yards to the campfire ring.  Tables and candles and smiling Scouty people all around.  Camp food. At the conclusion (singing Scout Vespers), the adults departed, the Scouts remained for the weekend.

The Council has no say in the CoH. Why would they?  The District is a volunteer construct and , again, what say would these Scouters have in this?  The Charter Org may have a say in this, I suppose, but why deny the celebration of what has already been earned and  awarded?  

By all means your Scout and you need to courteously and politely ask the Institution Head and Charter Org Representative and the Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster for the truth of the matter .  If you can find him/her, include your Unit Commissioner and/or District Commissioner, who are dedicated by their positions to the benefit of the Scout and his Troop. You  might also include the District Executive.   Any willing intermediary might be useful.  The light of day is never a bad thing in matters like this, but be respectful and go in jumps, so to speak, not all at once. Give people "permission" to do the right thing, rather than outright DEMAND it.  

Some years ago, I served as a Staff Chaplain at the National Jamboree two times . On the third time, I was denied Staff status. Both I and my faith community politely beat the Scout bushes until we found someone who could explain this aberration..  It was worth the effort, as the procedure was changed . I attended again, to good effect. 

Good luck to your Eagle and you. See you on the trail. 

 

[Eagledad]

I’ve seen a lot, but I’ve not heard of this before.

As others have said, your son is an Eagle and the ECOH is not part of the advancement process, which has been completed. The Troop, District, and Council have completed their official part in the process. 

From here forward, it’s personal. Yes, even the BSA says there should be a celebration and recognition, but that’s just a traditionally recognized formality, kind of like taking off the or putting the hand over the heart during the National Anthem. Nobody is obligated to give your family a ECOH. But, I’ve never heard of an Eagle being told the unit would skip their part of of the ceremony.

I Only say this so you can approach the situation from a perspective that it’s personal . Is it wrong? I think so and I, as a parent, would be offended and angry. It’s not about the ECOH, it’s about disrespect directed at the whole family. ECOH are typically family events, as important as weddings for some families. 

 NYCscouter has good instructions for proceeding, I would personally contact the CC to find out what is going on. I might even ask the DE (district executive) and DC (district commissioner) to stand with me as I ask the question. 

Keep in mind this may all be a misunderstanding, so always keep your composure, but something seems amiss from how it’s been communicated up to this point. 

Barry

Edited July 13, 2018 by Eagledad

[NJCubScouter]

Mich, first of all, welcome to the forum!  

I realize that you said your son passed his Eagle BOR and is an Eagle, but I just want to button down that procedural issue.  Do you know for certain that your son's Eagle application was submitted to National after the EBOR?  Do you know for certain that it was approved?  Does your son (or anyone else) have the certificate from National that says your son is an Eagle?

If the answers are all "yes," then I guess I am still left with the same questions as those who have posted previously.  I think your son has a right to know why he is not being treated the same as everybody else in the troop who has ever made Eagle.  The fact that you can have your own ceremony is somewhat beside the point, at least to me.  There is a great variety in how troops handle ECOH's.  If a troop always organizes an ECOH for its Scouts, and suddenly for your son they are not doing so because "there's a lot that has gone on," whatever that means, I think your son has a right to an explanation.

[Mich08212]

27 minutes ago, shortridge said:

Again: Your son is not being denied anything. A CoH is optional. Your unit is choosing to not organize one for your son. They cannot deny it. Nor is it likely that the council will get involved. National will probably not respond, either. This is a unit matter.

Again: What is your goal here? Do you want to have a COH that is meaningful to honor and recognize your son’s accomplishments? Or do you want to punish someone for what you see as an unfair decision? I’m getting more the latter vibes from your comments.

I agree. This needs explaining if you want better insight from these forums.

Ok, This words that were used by the SM was DENIED.  so thats why Im using these words here.

As for the explaining, I have spent over an hour explaining to others the situation. Please read through the feed.

Yes I want a COH for my Son. Yes I want to get to the bottom of this.   Just saying they wont have a COH for my son is not good enough. There needs to be a viable reason and the reason should be presented. period.

[NJCubScouter]

I'm going to move this to the Advancement section.  There will still be a redirect in the Council Relations section.

[Mich08212]

9 minutes ago, SSScout said:

At face, this is bizarre.  The Unit, District, Council all must give their imprimatur to the Eagle rank.  If the Scout met the requirements, all the signatures are there, there can be no argument.

The Troop and the family design and hold the Court of Honor. It can be as formal and ornate as desired or as simple and intimate as wished. One of my favorites was a campout on the grandparents' farm. Participants/audience had to hike in several hundred yards to the campfire ring.  Tables and candles and smiling Scouty people all around.  Camp food. At the conclusion (singing Scout Vespers), the adults departed, the Scouts remained for the weekend.

The Council has no say in the CoH. Why would they?  The District is a volunteer construct and , again, what say would these Scouters have in this?  The Charter Org may have a say in this, I suppose, but why deny the celebration of what has already been earned and  awarded?  

By all means your Scout and you need to courteously and politely ask the Institution Head and Charter Org Representative and the Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster for the truth of the matter .  If you can find him/her, include your Unit Commissioner and/or District Commissioner, who are dedicated by their positions to the benefit of the Scout and his Troop. You  might also include the District Executive.   Any willing intermediary might be useful.  The light of day is never a bad thing in matters like this, but be respectful and go in jumps, so to speak, not all at once. Give people "permission" to do the right thing, rather than outright DEMAND it.  

Some years ago, I served as a Staff Chaplain at the National Jamboree two times . On the third time, I was denied Staff status. Both I and my faith community politely beat the Scout bushes until we found someone who could explain this aberration..  It was worth the effort, as the procedure was changed . I attended again, to good effect. 

Good luck to your Eagle and you. See you on the trail. 

 

I appreciate your response. thank you so much!

Love the design of your COH.  Very nice. Love it!

It is bizzare and I believe it was council that said no to the COH. and I agree, why deny the celebration.

And of course it will be addressed in a professional matter.

I really feel that at this point its not just about my son.  I believe if they are going to do this with other Hardworking Eagles that this needs to be addressed immediately. I am all for making changes and I stand up for the under dogs.

[Mich08212]

13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I’ve seen a lot, but I’ve not heard of this before.

As others have said, your son is an Eagle and the ECOH is not part of the advancement process, which has been completed. The Troop, District, and Council have completed their official part in the process. 

From here forward, it’s personal. Yes, even the BSA says there should be a celebration and recognition, but that’s just a traditionally recognized formality, kind of like taking off the or putting the hand over the heart during the National Anthem. Nobody is obligated to give your family a ECOH. But, I’ve never heard of an Eagle being told the unit would skip their part of of the ceremony.

Only I say this so you can approach the situation from a perspective that it’s personal . Is it wrong? I think so and I, as a parent, would be offended and angry. It’s not about the ECOH, it’s about disrespect directed at the whole family. ECOH are typically family events, as important as weddings for some families. 

 NYCscouter has good instructions for proceeding, I would personally contact the CC to find out what is going on. I might even ask the DE (district executive) and DC (district commissioner) to stand with me as I ask the question. 

Keep in mind this may all be a misunderstanding, so always keep your composure, but something seems amiss from how it’s been communicated up to this point. 

Barry

Thank you Barry.

I appreciate your response.

Yes it is personal and yes I am offended so is my son. I am going as far as emailing the DE and CC about this. We do deserve answers. I of course am a professional and will keep it that way. If it needs to go to a higher level, I will do my due diligence.

yes its a miss... because I only know what Ive shared thus far

[shortridge]

3 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.

I’m still curious as to why you think there might be discrimination at play here.

[Mich08212]

15 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Mich, first of all, welcome to the forum!  

I realize that you said your son passed his Eagle BOR and is an Eagle, but I just want to button down that procedural issue.  Do you know for certain that your son's Eagle application was submitted to National after the EBOR?  Do you know for certain that it was approved?  Does your son (or anyone else) have the certificate from National that says your son is an Eagle?

If the answers are all "yes," then I guess I am still left with the same questions as those who have posted previously.  I think your son has a right to know why he is not being treated the same as everybody else in the troop who has ever made Eagle.  The fact that you can have your own ceremony is somewhat beside the point, at least to me.  There is a great variety in how troops handle ECOH's.  If a troop always organizes an ECOH for its Scouts, and suddenly for your son they are not doing so because "there's a lot that has gone on," whatever that means, I think your son has a right to an explanation.

Yes and thank you. He does have a right to an explanation and not a made up one at that.

Just now, shortridge said:

I’m still curious as to why you think there might be discrimination at play here.

IDK if there is discrimination.  But I will find out.

[Eagledad]

As you communicate with these people, keep in mind, excepting for the DE, everyone else are volunteers. Their backgrounds can be anything from truck driving to a Fortune 500 CEO. I wouldn’t expect experts in their scouting responsibilities.

Barry

[qwazse]

 

1 hour ago, Mich08212 said:

... My sons college schedule did not allow him to continue to participate in events and meetings. ...

Next,  You do not know my son. Please do not assume he can take and handle this type of conversation. He is dumbfounded by this and has no words for this situation. ...

Boy's in college? Is he 18 or older? Did he register with the troop as an adult? Did he take Youth Protection Training? I could see some wonk on a committee using these fine points to issue an ageist policy. I can't imagine council or district being involved at all. We SM's/ASm's are a touchy bunch, and if council yanks our chains, we yank back hard.

Our 18+ year-olds, if they came down to the wire making rank, are a squirrely bunch. Some don't want a ceremony at all. Some don't realize that if they are inviting us to their graduation party (which are notably large in these parts ... rivaling wedding receptions), we could slap together a 15 minute ceremony between dinner and dessert (or horseshoes, or the band's next set, etc ...). One or two take us up on the deal. Others just want one more backpacking trip in the back-country with their mates (which I'm more than happy to oblige).

There's just no one-size-fits-all policy. But when some committee tries to make one, things like this happen. As for your son being able to handle stupid bureaucratic behavior ... well, um, college?

[Mich08212]

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

As you communicate with these people, keep in mind, excepting for the DE, everyone else are volunteers. Their backgrounds can be anything from truck driving to a Fortune 500 CEO. I wouldn’t expect experts in their scouting responsibilities.

Barry

LMAO.  I hear ya Barry.  

And thats why I say, as all are only volunteers how in the heck can they have the audacity to not participate in a COH for my son. They've done it for everyone else.

I spent a good part of my years as a Leader in the Boy scouts. I know what Im dealing with..lol

 

[Mich08212]

10 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

Boy's in college? Is he 18 or older? Did he register with the troop as an adult? Did he take Youth Protection Training? I could see some wonk on a committee using these fine points to issue an ageist policy. I can't imagine council or district being involved at all. We SM's/ASm's are a touchy bunch, and if council yanks our chains, we yank back hard.

Our 18+ year-olds, if they came down to the wire making rank, are a squirrely bunch. Some don't want a ceremony at all. Some don't realize that if they are inviting us to their graduation party (which are notably large in these parts ... rivaling wedding receptions), we could slap together a 15 minute ceremony between dinner and dessert (or horseshoes, or the band's next set, etc ...). One or two take us up on the deal. Others just want one more backpacking trip in the back-country with their mates (which I'm more than happy to oblige).

There's just no one-size-fits-all policy. But when some committee tries to make one, things like this happen. As for your son being able to handle stupid bureaucratic behavior ... well, um, college?

Yes he turned 19 this past june.

Hes been in scouts since he was 6 years old.  so I dont understand when you ask if he registered as an adult.

Yes I believe that this committee is trying to make one.

I just emailed the SM to get his take on this.  He didnt give a reason just said that he fought for my son for it.