Denied a court of honor.

[Mich08212]

My son fulfilled and completed Eagle.  A very proud moment for my son. 

It had been 9 months since becoming eagle.  When he didn’t know what was going on he contacted his SM and when he did his SM wanted to meet with him. 

At that meeting he was told that he was denied a court of honor and would not give the reasons why.  

Everything I look up about this tells me that it is his right to have a court of honor after being awarded Eagle.  

Now I need answers to this very disturbing subject  

 

[RememberSchiff]

@Mich08212  welcome to scouter,com . Tell us more, there appears to be some missing information . 

[qwazse]

'Round here, the scout and his parents arrange the ECoH (pick the date, hall, type of ceremony, etc ...) and invite the troop or crew and others to participate.

Obviously, the troop can accept or decline the invitation, but they can't keep a scout from having one.

[Mich08212]

Actually where I am from here on Long Island. The Troop arranges it as well as sends out notification letters to certain congressman etc etc and the troop prepares plaques etc for that time.

I have reached out to a council member and will be continuing to seek answers as to why they denied it, names, etc. 

Its a complete outrage. My son has been in scouts since being a tiger and has been nothing but respectful. As well as working so hard on his Eagle project.   This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.

I also dedicated much of my time to (10) years) to scouting.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

Is the Court of Honor, the ceremony celebrating the the accomplishment, being denied, or the Board of Review, the meeting that reviews the Eagle Candidate's requirements and awards the actual Eagle Scout rank being denied?

If it the Board of Review that is being denied, there is a process to  called "Initiating Eagle Scout Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances" that the district/council will have to become involved with.

If it is the actual Court of Honor Ceremony, different units do different things. As Q noted, some units have it all on the Eagle and his family. Others take full responsibility. Some units do them as part of regular COHs. Some do special Eagle COHs as needed. And some units only do 1 Eagle COH a year and celebrate all of that year's Eagles at one time.

 

[scoutldr]

I agree with @quazse.  A CoH is a troop function, however, the Scout and his parents "design" the type of ceremony they want, coordinate with the troop as to cost, etc, and who will be invited.  I also agree with the above, not enough info for us to draw conclusions...what is the "rest of the story"?  You allege discrimination...on what basis do you suspect this?  If all else fails, you can contact your District Advancement Committee, and coordinate the CoH with them, requesting a representative from Council to make the presentation, be a speaker, etc.  Not sure about having a "right" to a CoH, however, I can see no reason not to have one if that's what the Scout wants.  The Troop's membership may participate, or not, as they wish, for whatever reason.

[Mich08212]

39 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Is the Court of Honor, the ceremony celebrating the the accomplishment, being denied, or the Board of Review, the meeting that reviews the Eagle Candidate's requirements and awards the actual Eagle Scout rank being denied?

If it the Board of Review that is being denied, there is a process to  called "Initiating Eagle Scout Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances" that the district/council will have to become involved with.

If it is the actual Court of Honor Ceremony, different units do different things. As Q noted, some units have it all on the Eagle and his family. Others take full responsibility. Some units do them as part of regular COHs. Some do special Eagle COHs as needed. And some units only do 1 Eagle COH a year and celebrate all of that year's Eagles at one time.

 

Yes, it is the COH.  He has already had his BOR in October. He passed. He is an Eagle.  His troop takes full responsibility. and does special ECOH as needed.   He was just notified last night that they are denying the COH for reasons they will not say.

[Mich08212]

27 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

I agree with @quazse.  A CoH is a troop function, however, the Scout and his parents "design" the type of ceremony they want, coordinate with the troop as to cost, etc, and who will be invited.  I also agree with the above, not enough info for us to draw conclusions...what is the "rest of the story"?  You allege discrimination...on what basis do you suspect this?  If all else fails, you can contact your District Advancement Committee, and coordinate the CoH with them, requesting a representative from Council to make the presentation, be a speaker, etc.  Not sure about having a "right" to a CoH, however, I can see no reason not to have one if that's what the Scout wants.  The Troop's membership may participate, or not, as they wish, for whatever reason.

Yes a COH is a troop function.  The troop always has the COH for their Eagles at the Elks lodge. They've been doing it that way for years. So the "design" thing is the same throughout the troop.

Discrimination.  It may very well be. IDK until I get to the bottom of this.

I wish I could give you the full story. This is what we found out last night and there was no detail as to why.

Thank you for the information.  I will contact the District Advancement Committee.

Yes thats what My Son wants. We sat here for 9 months wondering what the heck was going on. No contact at all.  JUst a few days ago, My son Contacted the SM by email to find out what we were going to do with the COH. The SM reply was : "Theres a lot that has gone on, we need to sit down and talk"

With that said, they talked at the library last night.  Basically no reason was given for the Denial of the COH. The SM said he did pull for him as well as a top official. He gave him his medal and pins and certificate (in a plastic bag) and that was it.

[qwazse]

So has your troop had a change in leadership and change in policy?

The district or council can't make troop do a CoH. The people you need to talk to are your troop committee and leadership.

Or, you could be like us hillbillies on the other side of the Appalachians and have a cookout and invite your scout buddies. Whoever participates at the CoH gets first in line for the BBQ. No hard feelings otherwise.

[Mich08212]

No change in leadership.  Although a council member passed away recently, he would've been the hard a** to do something like this.  lol  But alas, hes not around anymore.  His name was Al and gave everyone a HARD time about things.

I am going to go to District.  I will even go to Corporate if necessary. We are just flabbergasted that after all this hard work for years and the love that my son had for it, that they will not give him his COH that he deserves.   Disgusting I think.

LOL...  I love your sense of humor.

I think I will do a cook out. But alas, how to contact the boys and get this thing going... lol

[shortridge]

The CoH is completely optional and at the unit’s discretion. There are definitely some details missing here.

If the SM is refusing to do it, what do you hope to accomplish by trying to get Council to force him? That’s could create a major fight and lead to bad blood and the severing of relationships.

25 minutes ago, Mich08212 said:

We sat here for 9 months wondering what the heck was going on. No contact at all.

Why did your son take nine months to initiate contact? Was he not going to troop meetings during that time?

If you do choose to push this forward, I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your attitude that your son “deserves” the CoH. That will definitely turn off many people who might otherwise be on your son’s side. No one deserves a CoH, and as you’ve seen in this thread, the practice differs unit to unit.

I would also suggest that your son, not you, take the lead in conversations. He’s an Eagle Scout and can handle a mature phone call with an adult.

Also, there’s nothing stopping your son from holding a CoH on his own. Renting a state park campsite, holding a campfire with some Dutch oven treats for refreshments, and a simple ceremony is just as impactful as anything else.

[Mich08212]

Hey,

No the SM is not refusing. Unfortunately I do not have all the details myself as of yet. Im working on getting that information. Basically I can tell you that the SM Told my son Last night that he and an official stood up for my son and fought on his behalf to have the COH. But ( what I guess) to be the council, straight out denied it.

My son did initiate the contact months ago. There was no reply from anyone up until last night.  The Troop  contacts all Eagles after they make eagle and initiates it moving forward.  So thats why I said, we sat here for months with no correspondence from the troop at all.  I personally think thats really rude. I mean, here we are, not knowing whats going on. How are we supposed to know what to do moving forward if no one tells us?

Next, he was going to meetings after he became Eagle.  But let me tell you that most all of the Eagles do not participate afterwards for various reasons like going away to college, Work schedules etc. My sons college schedule did not allow him to continue to participate in events and meetings.

The reason I said "deserves" is because everything that I have looked up regarding this matter and on the BSA website suggests and says that a COH is a right and honor given to all Eagles. In doing this search for my answer to "Denial of COH" I happened to stumble upon this forum in hopes to find some kind of answer to this situation.

Next,  You do not know my son. Please do not assume he can take and handle this type of conversation. He is dumbfounded by this and has no words for this situation.

And yes, I agree, a simple ceremony is great but how to make that happen exactly is what Im also trying to figure out.

[CNYScouter]

A Troop/District/Council can not really deny an ECOH. They can choose not to participate but can not stop you from holding a ECOH for your son.

I fins it strange that both the SM and Troop Committee had no problem signing off the paperwork for Eagle and know have an issue with holding a COH

After being at the District level I can say that Council/National will stay out of this as it is a dispute at the unit level.

I think your son should contact your Troop Committee Chair and Charter Organizational Rep and the Head of your Charting Organization asking for the reason they are denying the COH.

Keep it short, respectful and to the point

I would also send a separate email to your Unit Commissioner, your District Commissioner and your Council Commissioner explaining the situation. This is the kind of situation they are there for.

You might want to copy your DE on this but I have found most DE's are clueless on how to handle this kind of stuff

At this point I would just plan to hold an ECOH on your own - I am sure there are plenty of Scouters out there that would help with the COH

 

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by CNYScouter
edited after reading relay

[allangr1024]

2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

Actually where I am from here on Long Island. The Troop arranges it as well as sends out notification letters to certain congressman etc etc and the troop prepares plaques etc for that time.

I have reached out to a council member and will be continuing to seek answers as to why they denied it, names, etc. 

Its a complete outrage. My son has been in scouts since being a tiger and has been nothing but respectful. As well as working so hard on his Eagle project.   This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.

I also dedicated much of my time to (10) years) to scouting.

 

There is still something not being said here.  Why do you think there is discrimination on the part of the committee members?  Age?  Gender? Political persuasion?  Religious beliefs?  Past behavior?  Has there been ANY communication between this scout or his family and the leaders of the troop.  This is not coming out of the blue.  Tell us everything about the scout and the troop.  There is an animosity here that is still unexplained.

[Mich08212]

14 minutes ago, CNYScouter said:

A Troop/District/Council can not really deny an ECOH. They can choose not to participate but can not stop you from holding a ECOH for your son.

I fins it strange that both the SM and Troop Committee had no problem signing off the paperwork for Eagle and know have an issue with holding a COH

After being at the District level I can say that Council/National will stay out of this as it is a dispute at the unit level.

I think your son should contact your Troop Committee Chair and Charter Organizational Rep and the Head of your Charting Organization asking for the reason they are denying the COH.

Keep it short, respectful and to the point

I would also send a separate email to your Unit Commissioner, your District Commissioner and your Council Commissioner explaining the situation. This is the kind of situation they are there for.

You might want to copy your DE on this but I have found most DE's are clueless on how to handle this kind of stuff

At this point I would just plan to hold an ECOH on your own - I am sure there are plenty of Scouters out there that would help with the COH

 

 

I agree that they cant deny a ECOH.   And it is strange how they had no problem signing off on Eagle and now have and issue with COH.  This is what I want to get to the bottom of.

I can see why National wouldn't want to get involved. When I find out exactly what the ridiculous reason is I will contact National.  There was one guy in particular that just gave my son a really hard time and even caused a fight because he got insulted for asking how we could speed up the process to get his Eagle project done.  It was so crazy.  I actually had to laugh because it was a mere question. So, I suspect this person is the reason for this.  Why he has to make things so crazy and picks out certain boys from the crowd is beyond me.  But my son has been singled out here and for reasons that I will get to the bottom of. This guy should not be involved with scouting whats so ever and should be dismissed.

What is a DE?   District Executive?

oh and I believe it was council that denied it.

Yes, Im going to plan my own ECOH. These certain individuals I wouldnt want them to be a part of my circle thats for sure. To sign off on the paperwork and deny a COH to any Eagle is atrocious!! despicable and shows very little character.

I will take your advice and find out who these people are. Thank you.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Mich08212