Parent Wars: The Helicopter Strikes Back

[Eagle94-A1]

Update.

SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol. 

 

[Jameson76]

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Update.

SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol. 

 

Sometimes folks need to go their own way on a different path.

[Sentinel947]

20 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Sometimes folks need to go their own way on a different path.

In my line of work we call this "Desirable Separation." 

[Eagledad]

As far as you can tell, is mom's reaction pride or mothering?

Barry

[Eagle94-A1]

Mothering. She keeps emphasizing his age as a factor as to why he should be allowed to sleep with dad. His den crossed over last year. So he has folks the same age, and also younger from this years' crossovers, who are camping with their patrols with no problem. Plus he's been with the troop over a year now. If dad would have discouraged him, instead of encouraginghim, this would not be a problem in my expereince. 

Since he has been in Boy Scouts over a year and is Second Class (don't ask), I do not see any troop allowing the family to keep it up. 

And the Scout with a medical condition is the same age as the Scout above, and he is fighting tooth and nail to be able to camp with his patrol.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Eagle94-A1

[ParkMan]

Just wondering though...  

What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave?  Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?

[shortridge]

5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Just wondering though...  

What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave?  Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?

Camping with one’s parents is Cub Scouting, not Scouts BSA. They can bunk together all they want as a family, just not on a Scout outing.

[perdidochas]

14 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Just wondering though...  

What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave?  Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?

The boy is not getting the program.  By this age he should be camping with his buddies.  This boy ABANDONED his buddy in the night, which is not a good situation. 

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Update.

SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol. 

 

Good luck to them (and you).  Maybe when she realizes that this isn't just your "hard-core" troop, but is the general thinking in Scouting, she will realize how silly she's being.

[AVTech]

16 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Just wondering though...  

What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave?  Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?

How does a Scout advance without camping with his Patrol? In our Troop, this particular issue has never come up. We have parents who don't let their Scout go on very many trips, for a variety of whirlybird-related issues. These Scouts often (unfortunately) remove themselves from the program because they only get to come to meetings where they are planning all the really fun stuff that they won't get to do, and they also don't advance because they aren't fully participating in Scouting.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

18 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Just wondering though...  

What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave?  Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?

 

In my and other people's opinions, yes.  When this first arose and the SM talked to them, Scout agreed to stop sneaking out and sleeping with dad. The Scout has gone back on his word, and dad refuses to encourage his son to keep his word. And it has turned into a safety issue. On multiple occasions now, Scout has abandoned his tentmate, leaving them alone. In one case this caused the shelter mate, upon waking up, to panic because the Scout was alone. That scout would not go back without his buddy. Long story short, both  Scouts stayed outside the  dad's survival shelter.

 

1 minute ago, perdidochas said:

Good luck to them (and you).  Maybe when she realizes that this isn't just your "hard-core" troop, but is the general thinking in Scouting, she will realize how silly she's being.

Funny thing is, we are not a hard core troop compared to two she wants the family to visit. THAT will be a reality check!

 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 minute ago, AVTech said:

How does a Scout advance without camping with his Patrol? In our Troop, this particular issue has never come up. We have parents who don't let their Scout go on very many trips, for a variety of whirlybird-related issues. These Scouts often (unfortunately) remove themselves from the program because they only get to come to meetings where they are planning all the really fun stuff that they won't get to do, and they also don't advance because they aren't fully participating in Scouting.

 

SM caved in to parents and tried to compromise with them. He could advance to Second Class, but he would have to camp on his own from then on. As you can imagine, once word got out, other Socuts were not happy.

 

[AVTech]

That is unfortunate. I have never caved to any of these odd requests. I simply tell the parents that we lose relatively few Scouts on camping trips, no matter what conditions might exist, and that  the odds are good that their kid will return in one piece. We had 15 Scouts crossover to our Troop this spring. I have one who was on the fence about continuing, and he has vanished. I have another who looks like is getting a lot of pushback from his parents about doing anything. Of the 14 that remain, he was the only one who didn't go to camp this summer, so he is already falling behind his peers. I'm really annoyed with the dad, but trying to be diplomatic, when I really want to give him a good shake. The kids are easy comapred to some of the "adults"...

[ParkMan]

I'm playing a little devil's advocate here - so please bear with me...

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

In my and other people's opinions, yes.  When this first arose and the SM talked to them, Scout agreed to stop sneaking out and sleeping with dad. The Scout has gone back on his word, and dad refuses to encourage his son to keep his word. And it has turned into a safety issue. On multiple occasions now, Scout has abandoned his tentmate, leaving them alone. In one case this caused the shelter mate, upon waking up, to panic because the Scout was alone. That scout would not go back without his buddy. Long story short, both  Scouts stayed outside the  dad's survival shelter.

Looking at it differently.  Here we have a Scout who is clearly not interested in sleeping in a tent without his father (parents?).  I'm sure this is largely a result of how the parents are raising him.

Our "big purpose" as Scouters is to develop these young adults.  The "game" we play to accomplish that is Scouting.  We deal with all kinds of mistakes from Scouts because we're going after the big goal of developing these kids.  If Scouts can't make mistakes in Scouting, then where?  

Here you all know this kid has an issue with tenting.  So, after you give it the good college try, then perhaps it's worth giving the kid a year or two to mature and be ready for it.  You could continue to make it a big issue, tick off the parents, and get them to go to another troop.  Or, give it some time, let the kid mature, and move past it.  I tend to think long term about these kind of things.  What is the long term impact to this kid because of these decisions.  What is the long term impact to the troop because of these decisions.  Perhaps with that in mind, then yes - pushing the family so much that they leave the troop might be the right thing.  Me, I think I'd let it ride for a year.

[Eagle94-A1]

I hear ya @ParkMan. But this has been happening over a year's time. We have tried tow work with the Scout. but A) The Scout is not even trying to hold up to his end of the agreement, B) dad is encouraging it, C) other scouts in the troop are seeing this and becoming resentful and D) the family mentioned leaving,  not the SM.

He's been in over a year. He's been on 6 overnite camp outs, leaving Saturday night on a 7th one because he refused to stay in a tent with his patrol, and attended 2 summer camps. We have tried to work with him, but he keeps sneaking out and joining his dad, and when mom and little brother are in attendance, the family. He is leaving his patrol behind, and leaving his buddy behind. In once case the buddy panicked when he woke up and found his buddy was missing. This caused both of them to sleep outside the father's survival shelter instead of in their own with the patrol. Apparently he was sneaking out of the tent and joining his dad last year at summer camp as well as this year.  As mentioned, last weekend trip he decided he was not going to stay unless he could stay with is dad, and they left. SM talked about this to the parents and the Scout when they were pushing for a Second Class SMC and BOR. Everyone agreed the Scout would sleep with his patrol f rom now on in order to advance to First Class, and the Scout has not kept his end of that bargain.So we tried to work with them, and the situation has continued. And even got worse with summer camp. Not only did the Scout leave his tentmate to sleep with dad, both them left camp one nite to stay at a hotel with mom and sibling without telling anyone until AFTER they arrived at the hotel. Dad texted the two other Scouters at camp that he was at the camp with the Scout and they would be back in time for the first class. Thankfully one Scouter got the text that nite before anyone became aware they were missing. The acting SM didn't receive the message until the next mornign at breakfast. Can you imagine the problem that would have caused at summer camp with a lost camper drill and they are off site!

As I said dad is encouraging it. When other adults talk to the Scout about the situation, dad says nothing. When this was discussed last time with the Scout and his dad for Second Class, another adult overheard him mutter to himself about if his son wants to sleep in his tent, he will. On the last weekend trip, dad didn't try to convince his son to stay. They left. Thankfully we had enough drivers, although it was tight.

Some of the Scouts are getting resentful about him getting rank without actually earning it. We have one guy, been in a few months longer than the Scout above, who is afraid of water. He has done everything for all requirements through First Class, except the swimming. He hasn't said anything to the Scouters, but  has told his mom how he cannto understand the Scout above being able to advance, but he can't due to swimming. Thankfully he been getting some swim lessons from one of the Scouters, and passed a Beginner test. Still working on Swimmer test. But he isn't the only one. other have commented how the Scout will not really work with his patrol. There have been complaints about dad doing the cooking and KP for him in the past. Yes, this is the dad who caused the entire patrol to walk off because he jumped in to do KP. Older Scouts have tried to work with the Scout, and dad has jumped in.  So the situation is affecting the entire troop. 

Finally, the SM talked to them about the entire situation.  He talked about how he depends on the adults to do what they say they will do. He talked about leaving camp without telling anyone and the problems it could have caused. He talked about how the Scout is not maturing and how the situation is actually harming the Scout.  The discussion covered the same material as the new parent orientation they attended over a year ago, and had again 2 additional times since they joined the troop AND was reiterated a 4th time when they approached the SM for their son's Second Class SMC. The SM did not invite them to leave the troop, but tried a 4th time to emphasize the Aims and Methods of Scouting, and how the troop applies them. The parents are the ones who suggested another troop.

And this is not the first time they suggested leaving either. When the SM talked to them before on this matter, they hinted at going to a neighboring troop because that troop said they did not have a problem parents camping with the troop. And that troop doesn't as long as the parents respect the rules the troop has in place for how adults act. And camping with mom and dad is not allowed.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Eagle94-A1
Missing 2 paragraphs of info.