BSA National and Change Management

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

I would like to give National some credit and even some benefit of the doubt, but it irks me that volunteers have no path of holding National accountable for their management. It's pretty much of a just sit and wait to see what will happen next type of relationship. 

Barry

 

I would go so far as rather than a wait to see what will happen next it's more of an arrogance that we will tell you what we feel you need to know when we determine.  Challenge is that we volunteers are the ones delivering the program to actual scouts.  The pyramid should be inverted with the Scouts (youth??) on top, not National

[Hawkwin]

18 minutes ago, RichardB said:

 

Do you really want an email and a dead tree letter?  @Hawkwin

 

 

 

I don't personally want such but I DO want the other parents, the ones that are not signed up for the various scouting wires, or that don't visit the various blogs, or read their scout's magazine to get such. Just a guess, but I would bet that there are far more parents of scouts that are not proactively seeking out information from those sources and are very dependent on any information they receive from their pack or troop - and if those units don't communicate it, then those parents simply don't know. My own son's Troop never communicated it to the parents in any official way. A few of the scouters mentioned to me in passing (because my daughter was at a troop meeting) but there was never an announcement or anything sent home to parents regarding the change.

My daughter was THE ONLY early adopter in my entire district. As it was, not a single pack in our district was an early adopter pack. We had to drive to another district. Do you think she was the ONLY one because there was not a single other parent or daughter interested or perhaps many/most of those parents were not even aware that such an option existed? When we did get another girl to join our pack in the other district, she also came from an entire different district. Her grandfather, a 40 yr LDS scout veteran did not know that such an option existed.

[walk in the woods]

25 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Couple of questions for deliberation:  

How many of you that want to be "in the know" are signed up for a weekly Scoutingwire feed?   https://scoutingwire.org/ Are you promoting that?  

Does you council have a newsletter?  Do you get that?   Any articles in there on changes?   

Do you get Scouting Magazine 6 times a year?   Do you read it?    

Do you subscribe to Bryan's Blog?  

Do you really want an email and a dead tree letter?  @Hawkwin

Richard

Bonus Question:  did you know the Program Hazard Analysis http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-009.pdf narrative was based on management of change document:  http://scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/doc/Narrative.doc?

 

 

I believe @Hawkwin was referring to parents he met at Cub Day Camp.  I would suggest parents aren't going to be interested in signing up for scoutingwire, or Bryan's blog.  They don't get scouting magazine.  My council has a newsletter, well, no, they have a FB feed and twitter account.  Plenty of parents who don't care about social media or email.  For that matter they don't really care about council.  I think @Hawkwin was absolutely correct in suggesting an actual letter as a good idea.  Besides, council manages to send me 2 or 3 actual letters every FOS season, even after I've contributed.  Seems like this wouldn't be that much more difficult......Then again, the folks I talked to at council were surprised by all the announcements as well.

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

Couple of questions for deliberation:  

How many of you that want to be "in the know" are signed up for a weekly Scoutingwire feed?   https://scoutingwire.org/ Are you promoting that?  

Does you council have a newsletter?  Do you get that?   Any articles in there on changes?   

Do you get Scouting Magazine 6 times a year?   Do you read it?    

Do you subscribe to Bryan's Blog?  

Do you really want an email and a dead tree letter?  @Hawkwin

Richard

Bonus Question:  did you know the Program Hazard Analysis http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-009.pdf narrative was based on management of change document:  http://scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/doc/Narrative.doc?

 

Sounds like a survey...in the making... maybe add

Is Scoutingwire helpful? If not, what changes do you recommend. 

How does Council communicate with you? Remember communication goes BOTH ways. Is that communication informative, timely,  and responsive?

Do you find the Scouting Magazine articles relevant, e.g., a recent article on Nap Safety? 

Where do you go online to get scouting information and express your ideas, opinions, complaints and why?

Bonus: What changes would you like to see with the Program Hazard Analysis, for example,  input from volunteers,  details (equipment, training, procedures) regarding injuries cited,  ...

I am sure there are more survey suggestions.

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[NJCubScouter]

16 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

I know its popular to blame National for any and everything but in defense of National on this so-called failure of management - the BSA issued a press release that was covered by just about everyone in the media - ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NPR, Fox, MSNBC, CNN - and pretty much every newspaper - large and small - covered this   Time magazine covered this .  Conservative blogs covered this.  Liberal blogs covered this.  Progressive blogs covered this.  Short of the BSA sending out some kind of campaign style postcard to every house in the USA, the news was pretty much all over the place.  It's not National's failure that so many people apparently don't pay attention to news coverage.

I don't think "blame" is the issue here.  The issue is success or failure.  Despite my reservations about this decision (before it was made), and my concerns about how the decision was made and how it has been "rolled out," now that it is upon us, I want it to succeed. 

Yes, there was news coverage... for a few days.  And in this constant news cycle we are now living in, within a couple of days after the announcement there were probably about 20 other "big stories" that captured peoples' attention.  This might be a heretical statement in this forum, but there are things going on in the country and the world right now that are more important than whether there are girls in the Cub Scouts and "Boy Scouts" and how the transition is being handled.  Not to mention the things that go on in peoples' lives that often drown out what is happening in the outside world.  The parents of a Cub Scout who has a younger sister, or the parents of a 10-year-old girl with no current attachment to the BSA, could be excused if they heard about this a couple of times but it didn't really "register" because their attentions were distracted elsewhere.  Obviously I am not talking about people who read this forum.  I am talking about the much larger number of Scouters who do not.

Businesses who want to get their message across have a time-honored (or dis-honored) method of doing so:  Advertising.  The BSA used to advertise too.  I remember a couple of them from when I was in Cub Scouts/early Boy Scouts (so I'm talking say 1966-73 or so.)  One had a "Follow the Rugged Road" theme.  Another had (as far as I recall) a couple walking down a dark alley in a city when they see a person, obscured by shadows, walking toward them.  They are fearful that they are being approached by an evil-doer.  But then the shadowy figure walks under a street light or something and it turns out be an older teenager in a Boy Scout uniform.  Everybody relaxes.  A Boy Scout isn't going to mug you.  And they lived happily ever after.

As much as I hate most of the advertising I see, and the constant repetition of commercials both good and bad, that repetition is what gets the advertiser's message to "register" with the consuming public.  Wouldn't that be appropriate in this situation?  Even though National would have to spend some money on it?  This is probably the biggest change in the BSA in any of our lifetimes.  Isn't it worth more than a few press releases to make sure the word is getting out?

[RichardB]

27 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Sounds like a survey...in the making... maybe add

That would be Voice of Scouting surveys.   They go out monthly as well.     

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

Couple of questions for deliberation:  

How many of you that want to be "in the know" are signed up for a weekly Scoutingwire feed?   https://scoutingwire.org/ Are you promoting that?  

Does you council have a newsletter?  Do you get that?   Any articles in there on changes?   

Do you get Scouting Magazine 6 times a year?   Do you read it?    

Do you subscribe to Bryan's Blog?  

Do you really want an email and a dead tree letter?  @Hawkwin

I receive Scoutingwire, and a council newsletter and a district newsletter.  I read most of most of them.  I read at least the first parts of Scouting magazine, where the "news" is.  I do not subscribe to Bryan's Blog, but since the articles are often referenced on this forum, I probably read 30-40% of them.

But I don't think I am the issue.  I consider myself reasonably well-informed.* And I don't think most of the members of this forum are the issue.  The issue is the people who most of us encounter on a regular basis in Scouting, who are not members of this forum.

*I do think (and have said as much) that National could communicate better with the field (including me) on changes in advancement.  The rollout of the changes accompanying the current handbook was pretty sloppy.  And while National (in the person of yourself), did let us know about the issuance of the current edition of the Guide to Safe Scouting, I think National should have been more up-front about the fact that they were changing a clear, strongly-worded policy about alcohol use into a meaningless pile of mush, and should have explained why they were doing it.  If these two issues sound like pet peeves of mine, well, yes, and I mentioned them in this forum at the time.

[qwazse]

17 minutes ago, RichardB said:

That would be Voice of Scouting surveys.   They go out monthly as well.     

You mean the surveys with the warm-fuzzy "are you happy" question?

Or, the ones that ask how scouts and scouters feel about insta-palms, from which the minority opinion seems to be followed?

I don't recall any survey asking boys and their parents a hard-hitting series of questions like "Would you approve of of a girl going through BSA rank advancement and activities: In your patrol? In another girls-only patrol in your troop? In another troop for girls at your meeting place? In a troop for girls at a different meeting place in your district? Somewhere in the nation?"

Better yet: "Do you know a girl who would like to participate in our program?"

Or one like "Should boys and their mates independently go camping? Go on day hikes? Hold patrol meetings?"

How about adding to the survey, "What would you like the next survey question to be?"

[RememberSchiff]

32 minutes ago, RichardB said:

That would be Voice of Scouting surveys.   They go out monthly as well.     

Another item to add to this survey.

How frequently have you received VoS surveys? Were the questions expressed in an unbiased manner? Do you feel your concerns, ideas, opinions were captured by the survey? Did you see the published results of the completed survey or just a summary?

 

[CalicoPenn]

6 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I don't know Calico, you didn't score any points on National hiding in the bushes looking to catch volunteers breaking policy. National isn't held accountable by anybody accept National. Criticism is warranted if for nothing else than balance. 

Barry

Who do you want National to be held accountable to?  National Staff is held accountable by the National Board.  The BSA is a business - non-profit granted - but still a business.  If you're thinking National needs to be held accountable to the volunteers and the Scouts, then you've got our roles wrong.  We're the customers - our only recourse is to stop being a customer.  The problem with that is that for everyone who doesn't like a BSA policy, there are far more that are either ok with a BSA policy or are apathetic and don't care either way. 

[Eagle94-A1]

45 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Or, the ones that ask how scouts and scouters feel about insta-palms, from which the minority opinion seems to be followed?

 

You don't mean the survey where 16% disagreed with removing time requirements for Palms and 78% STRONGLY disagreed with removing time requirements?

And while we are on surveys.

What about the survey results on the membership policy changes 5 years ago?  Slight majority opposed those changes. BUT why wasn't Western Region's LDS members' vote counted in the results? I'm sure that an overwhelming majority of members disagreed with those changes.

And why did National unveil the "Family Scouting" member Town Halls  with such short notice, and limited the member surveys to those who attended? And why have those results of the members surveys NEVER been published publicly?

@RichardB can you see why those of us in the ranks are not happy with national? As to your survey,

YES and YES

YES and Yes

YES and only the stuff relevent to program. Lots of the stuff is fluff, and one entire issue, the family camping issue, IMHO had no reason for being published.

Yes
MEMBERS AND THEIR PARENTS SHOULD GET LETTERS AND?OR EMAILS! Not everyone is a Scouting junkie.

 

[Eagledad]

13 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Who do you want National to be held accountable to?  National Staff is held accountable by the National Board.  The BSA is a business - non-profit granted - but still a business.  If you're thinking National needs to be held accountable to the volunteers and the Scouts, then you've got our roles wrong.  We're the customers - our only recourse is to stop being a customer.  The problem with that is that for everyone who doesn't like a BSA policy, there are far more that are either ok with a BSA policy or are apathetic and don't care either way. 

Well, I am a can-do kind of guy, so no-way doesn't work for me. 

Barry

[Jameson76]

27 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Who do you want National to be held accountable to?  National Staff is held accountable by the National Board.  The BSA is a business - non-profit granted - but still a business.  If you're thinking National needs to be held accountable to the volunteers and the Scouts, then you've got our roles wrong.  We're the customers - our only recourse is to stop being a customer.  The problem with that is that for everyone who doesn't like a BSA policy, there are far more that are either ok with a BSA policy or are apathetic and don't care either way. 

I would agree and disagree that we are customers.  Challenge is we (collective we the volunteers / youth / etc) likely do not view ourselves as customers, anymore than members of a political party may view themselves as customers.  Many of us see ourselves as part of Scouting and thus not so much customer but owners/shareholders of the legacy and history of scouting.

National team and many BSA professionals sometimes make the error on customers vs owners (shareholders) and a good many of them are not 100% sure if we are raising money for Scouting OR if Scouting is there to raise money.

[NJCubScouter]

9 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

I would agree and disagree that we are customers.  Challenge is we (collective we the volunteers / youth / etc) likely do not view ourselves as customers, anymore than members of a political party may view themselves as customers.  Many of us see ourselves as part of Scouting and thus not so much customer but owners/shareholders of the legacy and history of scouting.

I agree, I think.  We are a hybrid of customers and members.  We are not "members" in the legal sense.  Perhaps the CO's are, I haven't looked into it that deeply.  And some in this forum would argue that the CO's are truly the customers, but I'm not one of them.

Or maybe it is just the kids and their parents who are really the customers, making those of us who no longer have a son in the program... what?  Just volunteers, I guess.

[RememberSchiff]

Our youth are customers while we volunteers are stakeholders?