Son is at YMCA camp this week.

[Eagledad]

Add to that, a lot of troops (more than 50% in our district) use summer camp and MB Colleges for their total advancement. They want all new Scouts to leave as close to first class as they can. 

Barry

[fred johnson]

29 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

, i.e. rappelling on the White Cliffs of Dover ...

Humbled.  Really?  Why do I all a sudden feel so small ?   Rappelling White Cliffs of Dover ?  What next?  Climbing the Eiffel Tower?  Caving the Great Pyramids of Giza?  Skiing down Mount Everest.  

Edited July 6, 2018 by fred johnson

[MattR]

39 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

But the problem is widespread. parents, and some Scouters, want their Scouts to take as many MB classes as they can.

Someone should talk about the cost of those MBs. $300 camp for 4 MBs is $75/MB. That's a lot, and probably the low end given how many partials scouts get. I wonder how many parents would think that's a good deal. Maybe bring up the whole thrifty thing and show the scouts how to call a counselor.

Anyway, I agree. A few classes for the activities requiring certification to teach. Make the rest fun. Camps could help patrols find activities. That would be good.

[blw2]

23 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

Glad you are still with us. Hopefully your son will find some activity he finds fulfilling. 

Thanks.  I still check in quite often, but don't post quite as much.  I like this scout stuff and sometimes is just good parenting discussion too..

 

 

[blw2]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Add to that, a lot of troops (more than 50% in our district) use summer camp and MB Colleges for their total advancement. They want all new Scouts to leave as close to first class as they can. 

Barry

That is a great analogy of what I understand most camps' primary focus is...MB Colleges.

[blw2]

Thanks for a good discussion so far.

Yes very little time indeed.  I never even got in the lake all week to do the big air bag launcher thing during open swim.  Worse than that I don't think some of the scouts had a chance either!  It was such a short free time window before dinner, right when the troops had their own chores to attend to...

and I think Fred is right about "troop time"... I think it safe to say that most troop adults would fill that time with more stuff the boys don't want to do really....

yes, the Y camp was expensive, but it's also all inclusive.  no volunteers needed, the store for buying snacks and such was like an open bar at a wedding (i'm sure with a daily limit).  No uniform required, lots of other gear and manuals not required, air conditioned cabins.... All things considered it doesn't seem all that much more.  (and yes, I know cabins aint "camping" but in my view this thing is almost more about the experience than the material the shelter is made out of... a sheet of plywood or a sheet of canvas.... different sure, but not that much.)

[LVAllen]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:48 AM, MattR said:

Someone should talk about the cost of those MBs. $300 camp for 4 MBs is $75/MB. That's a lot, and probably the low end given how many partials scouts get. I wonder how many parents would think that's a good deal. Maybe bring up the whole thrifty thing and show the scouts how to call a counselor.

Anyway, I agree. A few classes for the activities requiring certification to teach. Make the rest fun. Camps could help patrols find activities. That would be good.

My son just returned from his first camp. He chose Small Boat Sailing, Motorboating, and Kayaking and spent most of his day at the waterfront. During his free time (of which we made sure he had plenty) he was either snorkeling or shooting at the archery range. He attended a star watching party, even though he didn't take Astronomy, just because he loves stars (and it's hard to see them in our city). He went on an overnight canoing trip in which dolphins played next to the canoes.

Sure, the camp was pricey if we thought about it as a weeklong merit badge university and gauged it as $/MB Earned. Fortunately for him, we didn't see that as its main purpose.

And, sure, he could have sat in a T-1C class for two hours a day and come out with most things ready to be signed off. But he wouldn't have been nearly as energized about Scouts afterword. He has plenty of time to work with his fellow scouts to improve those skills anyway.

Edited July 7, 2018 by LVAllen

[MattR]

2 hours ago, LVAllen said:

(of which we made sure he had plenty)

The context of my comment was the parents that just see summer camp as a way to get merit badges. Unfortunately they are tending to be the most vocal and camps are responding to them. At my local camp there's very little free time to do any shooting activities, or climbing, or anything at the water front.

[malraux]

4 hours ago, LVAllen said:

And, sure, he could have sat in a T-1C class for two hours a day and come out with most things ready to be signed off. But he wouldn't have been nearly as energized about Scouts afterword. He has plenty of time to work with his fellow scouts to improve those skills anyway.

I hadn't actually looked at the T-1C advancement much yet (Currently a bear den leader), but it really strikes me how much of those requirements are really designed to be covered in a troop camp out situation and not at a summer camp. Yeah the first aid stuff, some of the nature and hiking stuff, and the aquatics requirements work well at camp. But the camping, cooking, fire making, fitness, citizenship, etc are really poor matches for a 1 week summer camp.

[blw2]

OP here.. follow-up report....

He had a pretty good time at YMCA camp... good enough to say he'd definitely go back next year if his friends go too.

From my perspective, the camp wasn't as good as I was led to believe...but I'm not really surprised by that.

The freedom to do what they wanted in the way of organized activities sorta ended the 1st day.  they had to sign up for activities....I think it was 2 morning periods and 1 afternoon period.  By the time son and friend could sign up, the really "good" activities were full.  They got arts and crafts (which was probably what friend wanted, BB guns, and ultimate Frisbee. Neither or sporty at all so Frisbee wasn't good.  Think he said he only threw it one time the whole week.  Sounded like the bb guns were junk... but it sounds like they had fun anyway and made the most of it.

I think they were able to do that because there were lots of free periods...I think one was a cabin activity where the whole cabin as a group rotated around somehow to different stuff.  Also a good bit of time for them to swim or do whatever they wanted.

couple other cons (my perspective)...but didn't seem to bother him too much....

he and friend were put in an older age group cabin.  All good kids form the sound of it, and they were included..playing cards and stuff, but mostly the older guys talked about "girls and stuff".  They aren't quite there yet...

The other thing was at trading post time it seems that they would be out of the good snacks by the time he got to choose...but again, he wasn't very upset about it.

Overall, it was a win.