Ideas needed for younger siblings...

[Liz]

... to get them out of the "hair" of the Scouts? 

In my daughter's den there are three 3-year-old younger sisters who are pretty much always there. One is my daughter and two (twins) are the younger sisters of one of the other Wolf cubs (soon to be Bears). The twins and my daughter are only days apart in age and will probably become a Lion den in another couple of years. 

Due to simple child care and transportation issues, all three little girls are usually present at den meetings just because neither I nor the other family have anywhere else for them to be. We try to divide up and have an adult watching the little ones, but they really want to be involved in what the bigger kids are doing and we don't have a place to physically restrict them from breaking loose from their own group and jumping in with the older kids.

It's causing enough of a hassle that one of the other cubs, who doesn't have any younger siblings, has stopped coming. His mom says it's just "too chaotic" with the little ones running around. And frankly she's right. They are just not of an age to be able to sit still and listen to or participate in material that's several years over their head, and frankly the 2nd graders aren't THAT much more mature themselves so they get sucked into the chaos of preschoolhood pretty easily. 

How do other groups handle this? Any ideas for activities we could get the three preschoolers interested in, like a really good book of preschool activities or something along those lines? Or other ideas? I've floated the idea of my husband watching all three kids at our house on Den nights, but with the current "climate" in child protection he's not comfortable with the liability of being alone with other peoples' kids even outside of an official capacity where two-deep leadership is required - and I can't say I blame him. We can (and sometimes do) keep our daughter home but the other family doesn't really have that option right now for logistical reasons.

[Treflienne]

My kindergarten Daisy Girl Scout troop had a similar issue.   The other leader had a preschool daughter (too young to participate with the 5-6-year-olds) and our meetings were at a time of day when the dads were still at work.    Our solution:   recruit a third mom, who had a Daisy daughter and a 2-year-old daughter.   This third mom came to every meeting and looked after the two younger siblings. (She typically brought somthing crafty for them to do.  And they only occasionally joined in with the older girls when it was something they could do without being disruptive.)   And after a couple of years, when the younger siblings were old enough not to need so much extra attention, this mom was willing to  become a troop leader also. 

Of course,  it may depend on the personalities of the particular preschoolers.

 

[qwazse]

Preschool siblings stayed in a corner with their coloring books, or played with dolls, or stayed home.

[Eagle94-A1]

One reason why I and others do not like the term "Family Scouting" for "Coed Scouting." Meetings are meant for those in the program. Siblings are a distraction and can hurt the program. And depending upon what is done, i.e. siblings doing the activities along with their Cub brother/sister, the sibling will lose interest in the program when their time comes. I've seen this happen several times over the years.

So I agree with Qwazse.

[Lenae]

I second the recommendation for a designated sibling watcher. A small craft, game, toys, books, etc. The siblings should be in a different room, if possible. If that isn't possible, do your best to physically separate them from the rest of the group. My daughter is now a Cub, but has been tagging along with me to all of my now AoL scout son's meetings. I have a large den of very active boys, and keeping the meetings entertaining and educational meant not having younger siblings around causing distractions. If the siblings are just a year or two younger, and therefore more able to participate without problems, then I'm okay with them joining in. But preschool aged little ones won't be able to participate without distraction, they're just too little. Also, a little thank you gift for the babysitting mom like a coffee house gift card, is always nice. 

[Treflienne]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Siblings are a distraction and can hurt the program.

My experience is in GSUSA where tagalongs are strictly discouraged.   But still, sometimes the only way a mom can volunteer is if she can bring her younger child along.   (And if she does not volunteer then there is no troop.)   So if the only way you can get enough volunteers for a GSUSA troop (or perhaps for a cub scout den) is to have tagalongs, then you cope the best you can.

As far as who to recruit for being the tagalong watcher:   If there is a parent who always has a younger sibling with them at drop off and pick up,   especially if the family lives far enough away that the parent doesn't go home during the meeting but instead hangs out at a nearby playground,  then that parent would be a good one to recruit. 

[Jameson76]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:58 PM, Liz said:

In my daughter's den ....one of the other cubs, who doesn't have any younger siblings, has stopped coming. His mom says it's just "too chaotic" with the little ones running around.

Out of curiosity, Is this a coed den, or just different dens meeting at the same time and place?

[Eagle94-A1]

7 hours ago, Treflienne said:

My experience is in GSUSA where tagalongs are strictly discouraged.   But still, sometimes the only way a mom can volunteer is if she can bring her younger child along.   (And if she does not volunteer then there is no troop.)   So if the only way you can get enough volunteers for a GSUSA troop (or perhaps for a cub scout den) is to have tagalongs, then you cope the best you can.

I hate to sound harsh, but you need to recruit other Scouters. I know it's tough. But I have seen first hand the problems siblings cause. You have already lost one Cub over the siblings, you will probably lose more. And then when the siblings are of age, they will not be interested because they have already done they stuff and will be bored. The den leaders need to focus on all of the Cubs, and a non-Cub age child does not help that.

And it only gets worse. It is happening with my troop, we have one family constantly showing up with their Cub Scout. He constantly interfering and distracting the Scouts and his parents let him run wild. SM won't do anything because the troop is "family friendly." He doesn't realize how he is hurting not only the Scouts, but also the Cub by allowing them to keep coming to meetings and camp outs.

7 hours ago, Treflienne said:

As far as who to recruit for being the tagalong watcher:   If there is a parent who always has a younger sibling with them at drop off and pick up,   especially if the family lives far enough away that the parent doesn't go home during the meeting but instead hangs out at a nearby playground,  then that parent would be a good one to recruit. 

Agree that person would be ideal.

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Out of curiosity, Is this a coed den, or just different dens meeting at the same time and place?

You know coed dens are not allowed   Good catch.

[bearess]

Echoing everyone else— you need a designated sibling watcher in another part of the room or another room altogether.  Could your husband watch them in a public place, like a playground?  Is there something like that within walking distance of your meeting place?  If not, they need an activity.  And, as I say to substitute teachers, Justice needs to be swift and sure.  Tell the siblings they can’t participate yet.  If they go over to the group, tell them no, and bring them back to the sibling group.  They’ve obviously gotten accustomed to being able to participate as much as they want, and breaking that habit will be hard.

[Liz]

 

20 hours ago, Treflienne said:

But still, sometimes the only way a mom can volunteer is if she can bring her younger child along.   (And if she does not volunteer then there is no troop.)  

Unfortunately, this is exactly the situation we are in. That's what makes it tough.

19 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Out of curiosity, Is this a coed den, or just different dens meeting at the same time and place?

Technically it's registered as two dens. But since we only have a total of two girls (one of whom rarely shows up) and two boys (one of whom we may have just lost) it's not feasible for us to run separate programming. If we grow enough to split into two dens functionally, we'll do so.

We just had an all-day outdoor den activity at our house yesterday. It worked well here because parents rotated keeping the little ones somewhere else - usually inside the house which was fine, or off playing on the swings. We had the families together for lunch but the rest of the time the three year olds were out of sight. We only had the two Wolf cubs (my daughter and the brother of the twins) plus the Lion cub brother in the other family and that was fine because he was able to actually participate. The problem is this is less feasible in the church where we usually meet. I think maybe I'll suggest we move our weekly den meetings to my house. When the weather turns nasty we can have the 3 year olds play in my daughter's room with an adult. The location makes a HUGE difference. 

Next week we are planning a hike, starting at my house (we live near a trail) and the plan is to meet here and have one parent stay behind with the little ones and the rest of the parents hike with the Wolves and lone Lion. 

[qwazse]

This was how we made most activities work. The younger sibling "minder" wasn't necessarily in the other room. (That simply won't fly with some siblings.) We could have den meetings at the church hall, and our tag-alongs had a circle of couches at one end of the hall. This worked for them all the way up through Boy Scouts.

If siblings could participate without disrupting the boys, we would let them.

I certainly hope your Cubs enjoy their hike. Although some folks here feel that yours is an example of an inevitable (and in some ways untenable) coed program, it's nice to know that the male Wolf cub(s) won't be lone wolfs. And, if the boy(s) and the girls can stand each other for a little bit, they might indeed bring friends and grow two "linked dens." And we'll have something there that wasn't there before.

[Liz]

The kids are becoming very good friends very quickly, with lots of plans to meet up over the summer just to hang out. 

The other boy that was in the den, and who I hope to get back involved as we create solutions for the preschooler problem, is a child in my daughter's class at school that she invited to Scouts in the first place. 

In our community, the mix of boys and girls is working to our advantage so far. That doesn't mean we won't have more distinction between the dens if we get big enough to do so, but I think we'll always have joint activities. The kids just really like each other.