How do you encourage Scouts who lose elections?

[FaithfulScouter]

Interested in hearing your thoughts (and hopefully words of encouragement!) for boys who run for leadership positions but who never seem to get elected.  What do you say to the Scout?  How can you help them show leadership for rank advancement and personal development?

Thanks!

 

[qwazse]

First, give yourself a paradigm shift ...

In the scouting-verse, one does not show leadership by holding a PoR. One shows leadership by serving others. All scouts must do this. That's the main reason why every rank requires hours of service. (IMHO the number of hours is actually secondary. The scout getting into the habit of knowing what he did, how it helped, and thinking about what he can do next is primary.) So, if a scout really wants to develop leadership, he should involve himself in as many diverse service projects as he can. Most of these will probably be outside of troop life.

That said, a troop has to operate well. So every scout should take on some responsibility that, if done weekly, will make the troop as a whole -- not just his patrol -- run smoothly. They are responsibilities, and they lead to personal development mostly through managing something. (Hint: the ones that lead to personal development mostly through managing someone have "leader" in the title!) Only two of those positions are elected (SPL and PL). The remainder are appointed. A scout interested in fulfilling one of those responsibilities should talk to his SPL about which job he thinks he can do best.

So, who gets elected? In a healthy troop/patrol, it is the boy who fulfills his responsibility, obeys the scout law, and serves others the most. If that hasn't been the case at your last election, your scout might not be upset for himself. He might be worried that the boys picked Mr. Popular instead of Mr. Prepared. In which case, you need to encourage him that as long as everyone does their part, he'll see this boy grow into the leader he should be.

If the boy is concerned that he got picked over. Help him to figure out if he's really been serving his buddies and his community the way he should. Suggest a PoR that he could ask the SPL to appoint him to.

Finally, if the boy is interested in being in on the PLC, and is good at taking notes, he might want to consider serving as Scribe.

[Eagledad]

Not a lot of information, and a lot depends on the troop culture. In general, selection of leadership is based on respect, which usually is earned. For me, everything in scouting is about developing good habits of character. So, I approached guiding Scouts to practice for skills (servant skills) not advancement. But, if the scout follows my guidance, we both get what we want.

I guided ambitious Scouts to volunteer for positions that would give them practice of leadership skills and expose them to the rest of the Troop. Our troop used to pick up trash on a 1 mile section of a road every two months. I suggested the scout talk to the SPL and volunteer himself to lead the next service project. I gave him a couple of guidelines for planning the project and going to the PLC to explain his plan. He also should announce the project at a couple of Troop Meetings to sign volunteers. 

That can go several ways, but the scout does all the leg work so he practices planning and whatever skills he uses. The hardest part for theses guys is taking lead on the day of the project. Usually our SPLs knew these guys were inexperienced and would show up to do a little coaching. Our SPLs rocked.

If you look around, there are a lot of opportunities to gives Scouts some leadership exposure. Assisting the crew setting up program activities, helping or leading COHs, or even helping Troop Guides. They don’t get leadership credit, but they develop respect and practice serving. Those Scouts usually move up in leadership pretty fast.

By the way, I also tried to volunteer a new adult to work with the scout so I could show them how adults mentor in a Patrol Method Troop. 

Barry

Edited June 24, 2018 by Eagledad

[MattR]

It depends on the scout and the scouts doing the electing. In my troop the scouts doing the electing are usually good about it not being a popularity contest so a scout not getting elected is not deemed the best scout. Then the question is why? Is he shy and quiet? Is he a bit too goofy and not quite mature enough? I've seen some scouts that had very different personalities when adults were not around. It could also be that the scout that won was just flashier and sounded more confident. I have seen this work against scouts that I thought would likely do a better job and making sure things get done. Anyway, this is a discussion to have with the scout to get him to think about to see if there's anything he needs to work on. Once in a while I have also asked other scouts why someone didn't get elected and I'm usually in for a surprise about the scouts' view of the one that didn't get elected.

There are other ways to show leadership. Den chief is great for any shy or young scout. The cubs will look up to him. As @Eagledad says, find a way to lead his patrol or troop for a single event. Do that a couple of times and people's opinion might change for the next election. Ideally his PL should be helping him with this but usually not.

[FaithfulScouter]

We have a boy who has run for PL twice and lost.  He was appointed OA Rep and according to our SM, he has been the most active and best rep in recent memory.  He attended most OA meetings, NOAC training, volunteered to help run multiple OA elections, etc.  The boy also volunteered a significant number of hours outside of the Troop, and was the only religious emblem candidate the Troop has had in many years.  And yet, at his Life BOR he was very nearly denied because the Committee, headed by the visiting Unit Commissioner, felt that his leadership was marginal.  I guess the SM and Unit Commissioner have very different standards for leadership.

[shortridge]

I got to Life and was never elected. I was appointed PL of the new-Scout patrol (not how it should happen, I know) and thereafter served as troop librarian, den chief and JASM. I filled in as SPL plenty of times on campouts, but never had the urge to hold the job. As @qwazse pointed out, there are plenty of non-elected PORs that can be held.

There is also this option: “carry out a Scoutmaster-approved leadership project to help the troop.” If the Scout can conceive of something neat he wants to do that doesn’t fit into the normal scheme of things, then pitch it to the SM!

[Eagle94-A1]

Lots of good advice.

One thing I would ask the Scout is how does he work within the troop? Does he serve his patrol and troop? Does who do things cheerfully without complaint? Does he help others in a friendly manner? 

I knew one guy who was only out for himself. He was always trying to get out of doing work. When he did do the work, he complained or  asking for help. When assigned instruction, was a bossy know-it-all who really didn't teach, but bossed around. He was never elected PL or SPL, and only PORs he held were appointed ones.

[qwazse]

10 hours ago, FaithfulScouter said:

...  He was appointed OA Rep and according to our SM, he has been the most active and best rep in recent memory.  ...  the Committee, headed by the visiting Unit Commissioner, felt that his leadership was marginal.  ...

So, you don't have a youth elections problem. You have an adult interference problem. Encourage your scout that he is doing everything right. If he's enjoying being OA Rep, he should keep up the good work.

I would tell the UC that he/she is not to hold another BoR in your troop until he/she is willing to hold up the requirements as written.

[FaithfulScouter]

@qwazse My concern is that if District reps believe that PL and SPL are the only way to show leadership then those boys who cannot win elections are at a serious disadvantage.  Our Troop has 45 boys.  This boy is just one example, and thankfully our SM works hard to address the needs of these boys.  

[Buggie]

I worry for things like this. BORs should be to assess how the scout is doing in the program and how the troop is doing to address the scout's needs. It isn't a retest or examination of the items the scout has fulfilled for the rank. You can see how well the scout has been taught, but you can't deny them because they no longer remember how to tie a square knot for example. (you can then go back to the SM and say, hey, we need to beef up the square knot knowledge. we're seeing scouts aren't remembering it.)

For the POR, it isn't an assessment of how well the scout did in his duty, but that he did so. The SM should be the one addressing how well a scout is doing through various moments in the scout's service in that POR. It should NEVER be an ambush where someone comes in and says, "Well, you haven't been doing enough these last six months."  I certainly would question any district rep coming in who doesn't have a good grasp of what the scout has done for the troop. They didn't see the scout for those six months.  The District Rep might have observed them in the OA in this case, but that's not monitoring the scout as far as the unit is concerned.  And if that District Rep really has an issue, it needs to be delivered to the SM and not to ambush a scout in their BOR. 

[NJCubScouter]

What is a "visiting Unit Commissioner" doing serving on, much less chairing, a unit BOR for Life?  Regardless of whether they are properly understanding the situation with this Scout or the troop or not, I don't see how it is th eir role.  They are not a member of the troop committee.  It sounds to me like the UC is acting like some kind of roving "boss" who gets to take over the unit when he is visiting.  He's supposed to be helping and supporting and advising, not commanding. 

I am the Advancement Chair for our troop, and I chair the BOR's, and if I am absent, the CC does.  I don't think either of us would react kindly to a UC coming in and trying to do our jobs.  I would have no objection to the UC sitting in on a BOR as an observer.  A silent observer.  He can talk when the candidate is out of the room, but he doesn't get a vote.  We did once have a new DE attend one of our committee meetings, but she did not try to run the meeting or issue "orders."

Not that we have to worry about seeing a UC at one of our meetings.  I don't think it has happened in the 15 years I have been involved.  I wouldn't mind one being around if they are there to help, but they have to stay within their role.

Or am I missing something?

 

[FaithfulScouter]

We have had quite a bit of turnover on the Committee.  The COR is the interim CC and the AC position is also vacant, which most likely prompted his visit.  I do not know the official reason for his visit, to be honest.  This person was historically our district Chair of Advancement too, so talk about pressure on the Scout!  I have confidence in our SM, but since our boys will be evaluated outside of our Troop for Eagle, I guess they need to be doubly prepared....

[qwazse]

My reply seems to have been lost to the ether. So briefly, here's what you and the SM should do.

• Stand by your scouts and let them know you like what they are doing. (Sound's like that's happening.)
• Contact your district commissioner and ask if you and the SM may bring this up as a round-table topic for the boy-scout breakout session.

[MattR]

5 hours ago, FaithfulScouter said:

@qwazse My concern is that if District reps believe that PL and SPL are the only way to show leadership then those boys who cannot win elections are at a serious disadvantage.  Our Troop has 45 boys.  This boy is just one example, and thankfully our SM works hard to address the needs of these boys.  

 

10 minutes ago, FaithfulScouter said:

I have confidence in our SM, but since our boys will be evaluated outside of our Troop for Eagle, I guess they need to be doubly prepared....

Time to be proactive and ask those that run the EBORs. At the same time have the scout document specifically what he's done for leadership. It would be a lot better to address this issue now than wait until the EBOR. We've seen a lot of messed up scenarios on this forum. There shouldn't be any extra rules but ....

[MikeS72]

21 hours ago, FaithfulScouter said:

And yet, at his Life BOR he was very nearly denied because the Committee, headed by the visiting Unit Commissioner, felt that his leadership was marginal.  I guess the SM and Unit Commissioner have very different standards for leadership.

As do I.  This Scout sounds to me to be very much a leader.