Imaginary Kids Don't Sell Pop Corn.

[Eamonn]

Thinking about Advancement in Venturing made me think about membership.

I have to admit to being an old fuddy-duddy. I am sick and tired of people telling me to "Think Out Of the box."

Venturing has been hailed as the program that has the greatest potential for growth. I do not in any way disagree with that statement. I only have to look at what percentage of the total available youth of Venturing age that our District is reaching to see that there is room for improvement.

When I look at the names of the youth in the Crews in the District, most of the Boys are also on the Troop Charter. Yet we count them twice.

Thanks to some creative thinking at the Council level we have one Crew in a Juvenile Female Detention Center. This unit was supposed to be "Serviced" by an Americore volunteer. He was let go and our DE was told that she was to service this unit. It didn't seem to matter that she has no training in Venturing. When she arrived and met with these girls it turns out this was the first meeting this year. I'm not even going to question the fact that here we have a senior DE earning over $K doing a volunteers job? Last December in a last ditch effort to make Quality Council a couple of hundred Venturers were signed up as part of an in school program. They don't appear anywhere on any district membership report. None of the Districts made Quality District but the Council made Quality Council. While possible I find it very questionable. I have heard that we had a fifth district for a very short while. To be fair I think that one of the DE's is "Servicing" these "Crews" going into the schools once a month. But to my in the box thinking his ain't how we play the game.

In another District we have a "Pack" that meets once a year. They meet at a local YMCA, the DE has a craft for these little guys and girls?? Provides Some bug juice and that's it till next year. Again I think that this is a nice idea but it's not Cub Scouting.

Needless to say these units don't ever show any advancement.

Last year the Council Pop Corn sales were down by 6%. Being as the Council Pop Corn Chair. Is the wife of one the Council VP's. There is an ongoing investigation as to why. We as a District did meet our goal but still we are being hounded by the Council to not only have a District Pop Corn Chair. But have lots of Pop Corn Chairs?? I fail to see how this will result in better sales but that is what they have come up with.

When are the powers that be going to see that this creative thinking in membership is hurting the entire program?

I am not a great lover of the LFL program, but if the program that we are trying to sell doesn't fit in the traditional programs lets put it in the LFL.

Imaginary kids don't advance and they can't sell popcorn.

Eamonn

[eagle54]

Circle Ten Council (Dallas, Texas) had some paper units and some professional scouts were fired because of this.

 

Is part of evaluation of Scout professional job based on the growth in membership?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Is part of evaluation of Scout professional job based on the growth in membership?"

 

From what I've read here, yes. It's grow or die.

[scoutldr]

Not to oversimplify, but the professional's job depends on more youth, more units and more money. If they are successful, making Quality District, you can expect them to be leaving soon as they are transferred to another district or take a promotion to another Council.

 

Eamonn, the situation you describe violates several points of the Scout Law, not to mention possible fraud when it comes to the operation of a non-profit corporation. Heads should roll, and I would side with you in refusing to be a party to it.

[Eamonn]

I don't think that any of the rules have been broken. I should have titled this imaginary Scouts. These Kids do exist and I will bet that whatever paperwork was needed to keep thing "Legal" has been taken care of.

But a pack that meets once a year?

These in School Crews are having someone that goes into the school and does present something out of some Venturing book.

There are those who will say that this falls within the mission of Scouting. Which might well be very true. I just have a hard time thinking out of the box and seeing how this type of thing falls within the Vision.

I will admit to not being that knowledgeable about Scoutreach. However from what I have seen and read the idea is a good one and if followed the strategies are "Doable." I'm not sure how we get from what the BSA is posting on their web site to some of the programs that I have heard about? I can see the need to send in paid volunteers or para-professionals to get new units up and running but there has to be a clear goal to make these units become traditional units within a given time.

Eamonn

[EagleInKY]

I've heard of these "paper units" in the past. School clubs, youth groups and youth 'rehabilitation' centers are rumored to have been used in the past. I think it's a combination of the DE needing to get his/her numbers up and the need to do something for special-needs kids. I don't agree with it. From what I've heard, when these things come to light, the people involved have been busted. I think it falls into the "don't ask/don't tell" area.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I have read your past misgivings about the Paper Tigers. I think that you have had a peek backstage and what you saw disagreed with the performance out front. It is not unkind to point out that watching the making of sausage defiles the taste.

 

The BSA would never set a policy of numbers, yet it pushes so hard with ever fiber of its' organization that it is hard to miss the message. One standard quote goes like this, "if the DE cannot make the goal(s?), then they can go sell insurance".

 

Most of us have witnessed the yearly paper units with adults signed multiple times to units and in positions without their knowledge or consent. This practice allows the D.E. to keep units going "strong" until next year, in hopes that they will be noticed and will be carried out of the mess and on to a higher level.

 

There is no question about it being wrong. The question makes one wonder about where Scouting would be without those practices. Would the BSA survive? Would people be able to make the payroll without their numbers? Does honesty really work in a world full of corruption?

 

Obverse side: Is the BSA really responsible for pushing the numbers? Are the leaders of the movement content to allow people to do their jobs? The problems might be coming from a few greedy D.E.'s simply padding their numbers to be recognized and to be moved up in the company. Maybe the problem is with the lower levels and the upper levels are simply trusting souls hoping that everyone plays by the rules.

 

Edge of the coin: It might be that the volunteers are driving the program beyond its' limits. It may be that the Professionals are trying to keep all of the many projects and camps and all of the maintenance and all of the manpower needed to meet demands set by people that are really outside the structure. It may be that getting money is a very difficult process and every means necessary is being utilized to fulfill a mission that is never enough.

 

The numbers crunch seems to me to be a visible sign of a deep wound. I am sure somebody is responsible because it is being heard and talked about all around the country. It is sad to know that Scouting cannot be the symbol that so many want it to be. Of all the possible companies, Scouting is one that we need to reflect the ethics that we entrust to our Scouts and to our leaders. Somebody has done this awful deed and it needs to stop. If we are doing it to ourselves, then we need to identify the cause, analyze the problem and stop it.

 

I am not so naive to believe that words will make it go away but words will shine a light on it and such things tend to crawl away when exposed.

 

FB

[Eamonn]

Fuzzy Bear,

While I agree with most of what you have posted. I don't agree that the BSA doesn't have a policy on numbers.This is clearly shown in the requirements for Quality District and Quality Council.

I don't think that the BSA has ever requested anyone one to cheat or lie.In fact I'm not sure if those behind some of the programs that I have mentioned don't think that they are doing a wonderful job? I'm not even sure if what they are doing isn't in line with the way we are heading.It could be that this is some new way of thinking. Kind of along the lines that any program is better then nothing.

I think that I'm a very lucky little fellow!! Most of the people in the District are aware that Scouting is a living thing and like most living things when it stops growing it is in fact starting to die. I have a lot of good people who are willing to work their hearts out to ensure that we do grow. These people are all over the place, some are Cub Scouts who bring their pals to join their pack or den some are scouts, many are leaders and we have a very active membership committee. We never want to fail.

I am aware that we have it easy. Here in the area in which we live the crime rate is low. Gangs don't exist and most of the kids come from good families. We don't really have a need for these "Out Of The Box" ideas. I'm not sure, but I wonder if the person or persons behind some of these ideas didn't attend a conference and hear about this new way of doing things?

The TV was on tonight, I wasn't watching it but there was program about the police in LA and the problems that some parts of the city is having with gangs. I can see how some of these ideas might be used in areas like that.

Eamonn

[Fuzzy Bear]

These new ideas were brought to my attention by accident in the early 80's. It did not appear that these ideas were "outside the box" but were standard issue with the D.E. training. I qualify this based upon the viewing the same practices from several D.E.s that I worked with over those years.

 

Now, I do not have a corner on the market of being the only person having witnessed these practices. I believe that if you will listen to other Scouter's from around the country that you will hear some of these same tales.

 

As far as Quality District and Quality Units being requested to increase numbers, I view these as goals that are voluntary and may be achieved by the individual units or the districts. I do not believe that fewer numbers indicate the "death" of a Unit or a District. I would point you in the direction of a unit or a District that has lack of participation or lack of program or a lack of involvement as symptoms closer to the death knoll.

 

When I speak of numbers as being a symptom of an ailment, I am referring to the enforced rule of increasing numbers. This enforced rule dictates, increase or be fired.

 

I want to point out that you spoke earlier about some of these problems being part of your present experience, yet you replied that your district is part of the privileged elite and that these practices should be found only in the bad areas of the country. I came from the part of the country where the National Headquarters is stationed and we had several well-off families, yet I found these problems there.

 

My concern is about the validity of the problem and if it valid, what or who is driving it? Put simply, numbers alone do not indicate quality program. For those that make this mistake, I believe they will find that there will be deficits in key areas of the program that will actually decrease involvement and ultimately will decrease real numbers.

 

FB

 

FB