Can a girl who gender identifies as a boy join a Scout troop now?

[cchoat]

I know this is a strange thought, but while I was reading several posts about the admission of girls to the 11-17 age group, and the potential for a rush to be the first "Eagle", I had a funny thought...

 

In today's PC focused environment, with all of the other changes the BSA has made to date, why couldn't a "girl", who gender identifies as a "boy", be permitted to join a scout troop today and begin advancement? 

Think about it....and expound.

 

[ValleyBoy]

Already can join but since they identify as a boy they would be seen as a male youth scout.

[Oldscout448]

Have one in my district,  she could have an Eagle BoR by the end of '19

Since gender is now fluid, switching back and forth is just a matter of paperwork as far as BSA is concerned 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Oldscout448

[NJCubScouter]

The current BSA policy on this subject, announced on Jan. 30, 2017, is here:  https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-addresses-gender-identity/  It has been discussed in this forum before.

The policy is basically that the BSA considers a person to be the gender indicated on their membership application.  I prefer the GSUSA policy, which looks like it was written by people who actually work with children, as opposed to the BSA policy, which looks like it was written by lawyers.  (Apologies to myself.)

As far as I know, the BSA has not had to deal with someone "switching back and forth."  They tend to deal with things that have actually happened.

[JoeBob]

3 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

(Apologies to myself.)

Did you accept?

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

Did you accept?

I did.

[The Latin Scot]

23 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

Have one in my district,  she could have an Eagle BoR by the end of '19

Since gender is now fluid, switching back and forth is just a matter of paperwork as far as BSA is concerned 

Mercy. It's that kind of ideology that breaks my heart; gender is NOT "fluid" yet society is becoming increasingly hostile towards those who still recognize this, while trying to force this suggestion on increasingly younger age groups. I was told at one preschool - preschool, mind you! - that as a teacher I could not "assume that all boys will grow up to be men, nor that all girls would grow up to be women," and my language in the classroom was supposed to reflect what they called a "non-gender bias." Of course I totally ignored that policy, and spoke against it whenever I could and to whomever's attention I could get. Luckily enough parents were on board that we were able to over-turn that mandate, but who knows when the tide will turn against us? 

I don't believe gender is a choice, nor that it is randomly factored into our birth. I think it's something that has always been an essential part of us, and it's not something we can change, whatever we may do to our bodies to convince us otherwise. But the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose is one of the BIGGEST frustrations I have with the direction this organization is heading. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[prof]

On 6/15/2018 at 5:39 PM, JoeBob said:

Did you accept?

 

On 6/15/2018 at 7:12 PM, NJCubScouter said:

I did.

Did you send yourself a bill?

[NJCubScouter]

3 hours ago, prof said:

Did you send yourself a bill?

Each of me sent a bill to the other, so we decided to call it even and let the accountant figure it out at the end of the year.

[Jameson76]

On 6/16/2018 at 4:43 PM, The Latin Scot said:

Mercy. It's that kind of ideology that breaks my heart; gender is NOT "fluid" yet society is becoming increasingly hostile towards those who still recognize this, while trying to force this suggestion on increasingly younger age groups. I was told at one preschool - preschool, mind you! - that as a teacher I could not "assume that all boys will grow up to be men, nor that all girls would grow up to be women," and my language in the classroom was supposed to reflect what they called a "non-gender bias." Of course I totally ignored that policy, and spoke against it whenever I could and to whomever's attention I could get. Luckily enough parents were on board that we were able to over-turn that mandate, but who knows when the tide will turn against us? 

I don't believe gender is a choice, nor that it is randomly factored into our birth. I think it's something that has always been an essential part of us, and it's not something we can change, whatever we may do to our bodies to convince us otheItrwise. But the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose is one of the BIGGEST frustrations I have with the direction this organization is heading. 

It's amazing isn't it that someone (gotta be gender neutral here)

under 18:

• Cannot enter into a contract, buy a drink, own a gun, rent a car, rent a hotel room, serve in the military, vote

under 16:

• Cannot drive a car, fly unaccompanied, must attend school, be out after certain hours alone, get married (depends on state)

All of this is because we as a society have concluded that at these young ages, they may not have the needed maturity and life experience to be fully responsible for these decisions...YET when it comes to gender identity, let it roll, they can decide away.  If one questions this, you are are discriminatory

 

[CalicoPenn]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:43 PM, The Latin Scot said:

Mercy. It's that kind of ideology that breaks my heart; gender is NOT "fluid" yet society is becoming increasingly hostile towards those who still recognize this, while trying to force this suggestion on increasingly younger age groups. I was told at one preschool - preschool, mind you! - that as a teacher I could not "assume that all boys will grow up to be men, nor that all girls would grow up to be women," and my language in the classroom was supposed to reflect what they called a "non-gender bias." Of course I totally ignored that policy, and spoke against it whenever I could and to whomever's attention I could get. Luckily enough parents were on board that we were able to over-turn that mandate, but who knows when the tide will turn against us? 

I don't believe gender is a choice, nor that it is randomly factored into our birth. I think it's something that has always been an essential part of us, and it's not something we can change, whatever we may do to our bodies to convince us otherwise. But the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose is one of the BIGGEST frustrations I have with the direction this organization is heading. 

Gender is a social and cultural construct - not biological (its a common error to use gender when what one really means is sex).  Since gender is not biological, it is very fluid - both on an individual level and on a societal level. 

Why would it be a bad thing to use language that does not reflect a gender bias in school?  Is it  really that difficult for people to say "firefighter" instead of "fireman" or "police officer" instead of "policeman" or "flight attendant" instead of "stewardess"?

As for "the fact that the BSA now holds that a child can participate in Scouting as whichever gender they choose", why stress over it now - it's a moot point next year. 

[Eagle1993]

35 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

It's amazing isn't it that someone (gotta be gender neutral here)

under 18:

• Cannot enter into a contract, buy a drink, own a gun, rent a car, rent a hotel room, serve in the military, vote

under 16:

• Cannot drive a car, fly unaccompanied, must attend school, be out after certain hours alone, get married (depends on state)

All of this is because we as a society have concluded that at these young ages, they may not have the needed maturity and life experience to be fully responsible for these decisions...YET when it comes to gender identity, let it roll, they can decide away.  If one questions this, you are are discriminatory

 

This assumes gender identity is a choice.  While I 100% agree that nothing permanent should be done for children under 18, I don’t agree that gender identity or sexual orientation is a choice. I didn’t choose to be heterosexual or identify as a male.   I’ve met transgender teens and I can tell you their life is not easy.  If it was a choice I believe they would definitely not choose to be transgender... they simply are.  

I think our understanding of the brain is in its infancy.  Add in epigenetics and impact on fetal development from the chemical environment of the amniotic fluid and we are only at the beginning of understanding human development.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Well, in practical terms, at least as far as Scouting is concerned, the child requires the agreement of their (using gender-neutral pronouns) parents that they are the gender they say they are.  The youth application requires the youth member's gender and also must be signed by a parent or guardian.  The BSA says they consider the youth to be the gender that appears on their application.  So the child is not determining for themselves that they are a different gender.  The adult(s) who are primarily responsible for the child are part of the process.  In the one case that became widely known, it was the child's mother, I believe, who was pushing the hardest for him to be in the Cub Scouts even though he was born a girl.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by NJCubScouter

[ParkMan]

It does seem like this is a place where youth really just need our support and for us to treat them as 100% normal and accepted - regardless of their gender identity.

[Eagle1993]

To be clear there will be an issue BSA will have to address. The first “girl” Eagle Scout.  There was a FB post where a parent registered his daughter as a boy.  It sounds like she doesn’t identify as a boy but the parent selected this to get her into Boy Scouts.  Now when girls are allowed it they may change her to a girl (or that is her plan).  So now “she” can be well ahead of other girls in scouting.

I think BSA should simply come out with a date for first girl Eagles so this behavior/dishonesty is not awarded... but I do see this as an infrequent issue coming.