If you were asked to help start a Scouts BSA Troop for girls, would you?

[an_old_DC]

No. I don’t have the time and energy for the baggage that would come with starting a troop for girls.

-ongoing struggle to find registered female leaders to be at every meeting and outing

-repeated meetings with Samantha Second Class’s parents to explain that unless they are registered ASMs, they cannot sign off for rank req in her handbook

-repeated meetings with Tammy Tenderfoots parents to tell them they cannot sign off on her merit badges because they are not registered MBC

-Paula Patrol Leader does not like to camp and quits attending meetings because she is in marching band. After scheduling multiple  SM conferences with her—and the registered female ASM as a witness—to explain the responsibilities of a POR and clearly stating the consequences of not doing the job, her term ends with her never doing the job. As SM, I won’t sign her book saying she satisfactorily completed the term—because she didn’t. This throws off her timing and plan to be the first female Eagle Scout in the troop and among the first in Council, so Mom and dad call the SE alleging sexual discrimination because I don’t want a girl to be Eagle

 

[ValleyBoy]

To answer your question, yes I would assist in getting  the troop started.  But  in my area every Pack and Troop is dependent on the Adult leadership.  Packs (CM, Den Leaders), Troops (SM, ASM) most of the CM are parents.  Units in my area fold because of losing this above group.  If it was left up to the CO to recruit and replace unit leaders NO leaders would be replaced and the unit would fold.   Units with very active CO involvement with the units is rare  in my area.  They are willing to let units meet at there location but do not take an active role in most cases in the running of the unit.

[carebear3895]

Boy would I!

[ianwilkins]

A scout is helpful.

[qwazse]

8 hours ago, Chris1 said:

I am not trying to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, which method(s) do you feel don't apply to or work for girls??

Adult Association??    Advancement??  Ideals??   Leadership Development???  Outdoor Program??   Patrol Method??   Personal Growth??   Uniform???

I don't want to argue about this, I just am interested in your perspective.

Not speaking for @The Latin Scot, but based on my experience as a crew advisor, girls and uniforming is gonna be rough. American female cultural icons put tremendous pressure on young women to "sex everything up". I'm not referring to permissive behavior (although that sometimes applies), but to emphasizing "woman in a man's world" in every aspect of dress.

They don't see it that way. And they take offense at the suggestion. But I've seen it play out with many young women -- having to convince them that yes, it is better to wear their uniform as if they are one of the boys and not some anime figure. I've also seen it play out with some young men, but not as frequently, and not for the same reasons.

There's are reason why GS/USA stepped away from a head-toe uniform.

4 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

No. I don’t have the time and energy for the baggage ..

@an_old_DC, I think you would be pleasantly surprised by the gun-ho attitude of girls who want the BSA program. My female venturers were my best recruiters of adult leaders. When told to do stuff, they actually listened to me ... even my own daughter. (Except the part about "venturers" instead of "venture scouts" she thought that was patently stupid, and had to hear it from somebody else.)

[an_old_DC]

@qwazseYes, I do know. I have been a Crew Advisor for 10+ years, have taken mixed crews to Philmont and other HA, etc., even had one young lady from my crew additionally serve on the Council’s VOA. So I have plenty of experience with female Venturers. And yes, a young lady was the most efficient, organized and effective President our crew ever had.

[T2Eagle]

Of the answers I've seen here, I like a lot of things about Parkman's, but E1993's answer made me pause.  If I wanted to start a girl's troop I think the more successful model would be to find an existing CO and troop and start a linked troop.  If there's something about the linked troop model that gives you pause, then my next best bet would be to find an existing CO and start a non linked troop.  Have a separate committee, have separate equipment, work entirely independently from the existing troop, but take advantage of the CO's  current support and enthusiasm for the program.

After you have a CO, and I think that's the most important step, you need two things at the same time: some enthusiastic girls and an enthusiastic SM.  I'd look to the local co-ed Venture crews for both, but that's not the only place.  A likely model for me would be an Eagle Scout father who has daughters instead of sons.  I have three different friends of mine who, if this change had come when our kids were 11 instead of 20 would have been perfect candidates.  Their first two kids were daughters while mine were sons.  I think to find these folks you could use some help from council, ask them for access to eagle scout roles from both the council and NESA members with local addresses, and start asking if they have daughters who might be interested in the program. Beyond that, like Parkman said, it's market, market, market.

[walk in the woods]

No.  I got into scouting as an adult to help my son and his peers navigate the path from boyhood to manhood in a society that is increasingly hostile towards boys/men.  That's where my passion for scouting lies.  

I did the co-ed youth group leadership thing for a few concurrent years as well.  It was a good program, but, it wasn't as good for the boys as scouting.

[perdidochas]

13 hours ago, shortridge said:

The title says it all. If you had the time, would you help get a stand-alone, non-linked Scouts BSA troop for girls off the ground?

For those who answer yes, how would you do it?

No, but I would help a linked Scouts BSA Troop for Girls get off the ground if my priest or deacon (i.e. the IHs of our COR, which has a BSA Boy's Troop)  asked me to.  

Edited June 15, 2018 by perdidochas

[perdidochas]

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

No. I do not have any daughters, and know I would be looked at with suspicion by some parents. That suspicion can cause problems that a new unit would not need.

This happened to me several times when I was younger and had no kids in the program. Heck it happened with some parents in the troop I grew up in!  One mother was very concerned that a 19 year old college student was working with her son. She thought I was a pedophile, and she told me that years later after she got to know me. Two troops I was in had reservations about me, and only accepted me as a volunteer when they verified that I worked for BSA, or checked my references in the neighboring council.

Now would I train and mentor new Scouters trying to get it started? Yes.

But the point it moot. My sons' troop needs help to get it back on track.

Well, I look at all other Scouters with suspicion.  I don't act on it, but I view everybody suspicously.  It's my part of YPT (along with my church's version of YPT, which is much more comprehensive).  Thankfully, I have never witnessed any untoward behavior, either by other parent leaders (leaders who have or have had kids in our troop), or our occasional non-parent leader (local Navy base occasionally has Eagles who want to volunteer, and we had a retired gentleman from Ohio who helped with our FL troop).  However, I am suspicious of all of them.  

In our CO, I could probably be a successful SM for a girl's troop, but that's only because I'm well known to the parish, and both of my sons earned Eagle with the CO's troop.  

[perdidochas]

1 hour ago, an_old_DC said:

No. I don’t have the time and energy for the baggage that would come with starting a troop for girls.

-ongoing struggle to find registered female leaders to be at every meeting and outing

-repeated meetings with Samantha Second Class’s parents to explain that unless they are registered ASMs, they cannot sign off for rank req in her handbook

-repeated meetings with Tammy Tenderfoots parents to tell them they cannot sign off on her merit badges because they are not registered MBC

-Paula Patrol Leader does not like to camp and quits attending meetings because she is in marching band. After scheduling multiple  SM conferences with her—and the registered female ASM as a witness—to explain the responsibilities of a POR and clearly stating the consequences of not doing the job, her term ends with her never doing the job. As SM, I won’t sign her book saying she satisfactorily completed the term—because she didn’t. This throws off her timing and plan to be the first female Eagle Scout in the troop and among the first in Council, so Mom and dad call the SE alleging sexual discrimination because I don’t want a girl to be Eagle

 

I was an ASM, and other than records (i.e. things that I could look up in our Advancement/outing records, like number of campouts, etc.), I couldn't sign off any of my sons' rank requirements.  In terms of Paul Patrol Leader, non-attendance to meetings/campouts would be enough defense (at least at District/Council level) for the charge of not wanting a girl to be Eagle.  

[perdidochas]

35 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Of the answers I've seen here, I like a lot of things about Parkman's, but E1993's answer made me pause.  If I wanted to start a girl's troop I think the more successful model would be to find an existing CO and troop and start a linked troop.  If there's something about the linked troop model that gives you pause, then my next best bet would be to find an existing CO and start a non linked troop.  Have a separate committee, have separate equipment, work entirely independently from the existing troop, but take advantage of the CO's  current support and enthusiasm for the program.

After you have a CO, and I think that's the most important step, you need two things at the same time: some enthusiastic girls and an enthusiastic SM.  I'd look to the local co-ed Venture crews for both, but that's not the only place.  A likely model for me would be an Eagle Scout father who has daughters instead of sons.  I have three different friends of mine who, if this change had come when our kids were 11 instead of 20 would have been perfect candidates.  Their first two kids were daughters while mine were sons.  I think to find these folks you could use some help from council, ask them for access to eagle scout roles from both the council and NESA members with local addresses, and start asking if they have daughters who might be interested in the program. Beyond that, like Parkman said, it's market, market, market.

I agree that a linked troop would be the easier (and more appropriate) to start.  

[blw2]

11 hours ago, Chris1 said:

I am not trying to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, which method(s) do you feel don't apply to or work for girls??

Adult Association??    Advancement??  Ideals??   Leadership Development???  Outdoor Program??   Patrol Method??   Personal Growth??   Uniform???

I don't want to argue about this, I just am interested in your perspective.

I think that I generally lean towards agreement with Latin Scots Point.  If you were asking me this question, I'd agree with qwazse about the uniform. 

The program format, being originally based as an outdoor program using things like patrols, uniforms, rank advancement are all rooted in military focus....more naturally boy focused.  Stereotype?  sure it is.... are there exceptions?  you bet!  But I feel like it's a safe bet that more boys than girls are typically drawn or are inclined to play "army", spy, indian tracker, woodcraft skills, getting dirty, and the like.  This is all the root of how it started based on what I've read.  BP wrote a book for military scouts, then somehow discovered that groups of boys were playing in the woods using some of it...so he wrote another book aimed more to a boy...using the natural draw of a boy to do these things.  At least that has been my understadning after having read some of BP's writings

On the other hand, girls generally (or stereo typically) aren't so into wearing military uniforms, caring about rank, and such...which is kinda the core of the primary method...and as they get older... the age of scouting's focus.... they are much more getting into 'looks' and style, keeping clean.  

What is the method of scouting?  I look at the overall method of scouting is "The Patrol Method".  All those other things you mentioned aren't really the method so much, or at least not the primary one in my thinking.  I think some of those are more like tools to use in working toward the aims of scouting (adult association, uniform, advancement maybe), or some such as ideals and personal growth fall more in line as parts of the aim of scouting...building character and all of that.

 

[FireStone]

14 hours ago, Saltface said:

Lately, if I were asked to help start another boy unit, I'm not sure if I would do it.

On the other hand, some of us have been armchairing the idea of a completely rogue unit using the 1940s handbook and merit badge requirements. I'd do that.

Ever looked into the BPSA? They kind of do that already, just with more progressive membership policies (no restrictions of the basis of gender, sexual orientation, or religion). But their program is definitely old-school, primarily outdoor-focused and with a much shorter list of merit badges. 

[WonderBoy]

@FireStone - Well... no, I hadn't ever looked into the BPSA. Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole.