Saltface Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, mashmaster said: I seem to remember a time when there were others we felt shouldn't be in the program or worse. Discrimination throughout history has always been proven wrong by the test of time. ...as long as you don’t consider any part of the Old Testament history. Edited June 23, 2018 by Saltface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 13 hours ago, Saltface said: ...as long as you don’t consider any part of the Old Testament history. Yah, I’m not sure what mashmaster was really trying to say. I don’t think he meant discrimination because some discrimination is good. Just ask female Olympic athletes. I believe separate male and female scouting programs are better for character growth than combined programs. I’m not sure how history could prove that wrong. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, Eagledad said: Yah, I’m not sure what mashmaster was really trying to say. I don’t think he meant discrimination because some discrimination is good. Just ask female Olympic athletes. I believe separate male and female scouting programs are better for character growth than combined programs. I’m not sure how history could prove that wrong. Barry Having boy troops and girl troops are separate with the same program. Everyone has their panties up in a wad that how dare girls be allowed to do the same things as boys. everywhere else in the world except for places like Saudi Arabia have integrated programs. Not so long ago, people said the same statements about races and religions. I am Jewish, and believe it our not as a youth I was denied access to youth programs. Why didn't I do Jewish youth programs you ask? Well, we were a minority and none of that was available. As an adult, I refuse to be the one to deny a child from pursuing an activity like scouts because others aren't comfortable with it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ah, l see. I’m sorry for your experiences of racism. Still, not all discrimination is wrong. Some discrimination is required for fairness, not comfort. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 18 hours ago, mashmaster said: I seem to remember a time when there were others we felt shouldn't be in the program or worse. Discrimination throughout history has always been proven wrong by the test of time. Expressions like yours only reaffirm that those of us who disagree with the co-ed Scouting decision longer have a home in BSA. By your statement, I guess you believe that GSUSA (who excludes boys) is an organization composed of sexists and bigots who are on the wrong side of history too, right? Oh yeah - I forgot that your liberal door only swings one way (against boys). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrifty Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, gblotter said: Oh yeah - I forgot that your liberal door only swings one way (against boys). I may be taking this out of context but I felt the need to reply. There are many "liberals" that are not happy with the new direction of BSA including myself. There are also "conservatives" that I know that are thrilled that their daughters will be joining BSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 4 hours ago, thrifty said: I may be taking this out of context but I felt the need to reply. There are many "liberals" that are not happy with the new direction of BSA including myself. There are also "conservatives" that I know that are thrilled that their daughters will be joining BSA. You are correct that this issue crosses liberals and conservatives. My main point should have been emphasized that the door swings only one way (against boys). This comes at a time when boys are clearly the group failing in our society and nobody cares. Nobody. Silence. Crickets. Any expression of support for boys and their unique needs is tagged with labels of sexism, chauvinism, and patriarchy. The fact that BSA is now abandoning its mission for boys under the banner of inclusion saddens me beyond belief. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 7 hours ago, gblotter said: Expressions like yours only reaffirm that those of us who disagree with the co-ed Scouting decision longer have a home in BSA. By your statement, I guess you believe that GSUSA (who excludes boys) is an organization composed of sexists and bigots who are on the wrong side of history too, right? Oh yeah - I forgot that your liberal door only swings one way (against boys). Frankly, I see nothing wrong with boys joining and following the girl scout program. You are attempting to pin me to a liberal when you know absolutely nothing about me. What would you like to know about me before you start making generalizations about me? Am I a liberal because I am Jewish? Am I a liberal because I thinks girls should be allowed to scout? You like to label people and attack those who disagree with you. I respect that you feel differently about girls in scouting but I will not allow you to bring me down to that level. Frankly, I don't understand why you are sticking around if you feel so strongly that the BSA has wronged you and the boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, gblotter said: You are correct that this issue crosses liberals and conservatives. My main point should have been emphasized that the door swings only one way (against boys). This comes at a time when boys are clearly the group failing in our society and nobody cares. Nobody. Silence. Crickets. Any expression of support for boys and their unique needs is tagged with labels of sexism, chauvinism, and patriarchy. The fact that BSA is now abandoning its mission for boys under the banner of inclusion saddens me beyond belief. I also am tired of 9 hours ago, mashmaster said: Everyone has their panties up in a wad that how dare girls be allowed to do the same things as boys. those who label everyone they disagree with under one cynical umbrella. Ironically, the reactionary premise of their accusations are as juvenile as the motivations of those they accuse. Yes, liberals and conservatives both, but on a forum for a youth character building program? Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eagledad said: I also am tired of those who label everyone they disagree with under one cynical umbrella. Ironically, the reactionary premise of their accusations are as juvenile as the motivations of those they accuse. Yes, liberals and conservatives both, but on a forum for a youth character building program? Barry Fair enough, but neither being a liberal or conservative have anything to do with this. I am confident, there are liberals and conservatives that are on both sides of this debate. I vowed to support all the youth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, mashmaster said: Fair enough, but neither being a liberal or conservative have anything to do with this. I am confident, there are liberals and conservatives that are on both sides of this debate. I vowed to support all the youth. Even a youth who “Having boy troops and girl troops are separate with the same program. Everyone has their panties up in a wad that how dare girls be allowed to do the same things as boys”? A little hint; when stress pushes us adults to our limits (about Wednesday at summer camp), our worst quick reaction typically appears. If you can’t resist over reacting while behind a keyboard with your feet propped up, eating a sugar free donut, I assure you the Scouts will expose your weakness. The forum is a good opportunity for practicing on adults the good habits of a Scouter who says they support all youth. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, mashmaster said: You are attempting to pin me to a liberal when you know absolutely nothing about me. You are correct that this issue crosses liberals and conservatives. Edited June 24, 2018 by gblotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, mashmaster said: Frankly, I see nothing wrong with boys joining and following the girl scout program. But do you use labels like “discriminatory” and “exclusionary” and “on the wrong side of history” to describe organizations that focus on the needs of girls? Or is that name calling reserved only for those serving boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, mashmaster said: Frankly, I don't understand why you are sticking around if you feel so strongly that the BSA has wronged you and the boys. If based only on my strong disapproval, I would already be gone. But “sticking around” has to do with my love for the boys I serve as Scoutmaster. My planned exit from Scouting will happen in an orderly way. Our troop will be dissolved after nearly 60 years in existence and more than 85 Eagle Scouts. Decisions have consequences. 3 hours ago, mashmaster said: I respect that you feel differently about girls in scouting Respect? Attempts to trivialize opposing points of view by saying “everyone has their panties up in a wad” only reveals your lack of respect and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblotter Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 3 hours ago, mashmaster said: I will not allow you to bring me down to that level. Setting aside the pompous nature of your statement, focusing on the needs of boys (a failing segment of our society) is not a lower calling. It reveals a lot that you somehow consider yourself more elevated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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