Pull Ups for Tenderfoot

[CaveEagle]

This has come up a couple of times in our troop and a formal complaint has just been brought to our committee.

 

Tenderfoot requirement 10b requires that a scout "show improvement" after paracticing the execises in 10a for 30 days. We have had boys that have not been able to complete a "Full" pull-up after the 30 days. We have had a few boys that took several months of work to get there and one scout that has been unable after a full year. The scout's dad has validated his son's effort and even consulted his doctor regarding the boy's lack of progress.

 

As our Troop's CC I have expressed disagreement with the SM refusal to let boys progress without a "Full" Pull-Up. If the Boy can demontrate an honest effort for the prescribed 30 days (and shows "improvement" in the other 10a exercises) It does not seem right to hold them back without concideration.

 

I am certainly in favor of pushing the boys to improve their physical fitness, but for some boys, this seems like more of a demotivator than a reasonable challenge.

 

I am pretty sure that this requirement has been added since the 80s when I was a scout.

 

Why is this the only rank where this seems to important?

 

Is "First Class First Year" only a goal for skinny Boys?

 

CE

[buffalo2]

Think that the military skirts around this by timing the 'flexed arm hang' (KS got any thoughts on this?) Start off on something that lets the candidate stand with their chin above the bar - time until the arms are fully extended. As that time increases (in response to training of course) improvement is shown

Might be a way to move forward...

[KoreaScouter]

We may be splitting hairs here, but it doesn't say "show improvement in all of them". What's the preponderance of the evidence; is it obvious the Scout's been working at it? Is his run a second or two faster, his jump an inch or two farther, did he do an additional pushup and situp? And, as it pertains to this lad, did he get an inch higher on the pullup bar? That's improvement.

 

We're trying to kindle a flame here, not create an Olympic decathlete in 30 days. The intent as I see it is to show a boy that some effort over a period of time can improve results...in the aggregate. And, by doing so, inspire a life of active fitness...one of our aims, right? If we're taking a year to complete a 30-day requirement, are we missing the point?

 

KS

[NJCubScouter]

Funny you should mention this. About 4 months ago my son was at a troop meeting doing requirement 10b as the last thing needed for Tenderfoot (other than SM conference.) He had not been able to do one pullup at the beginning of 30 days and he could not do one at the end. I heard the ASM who was working with him talking to him about it, and looking at the book, and trying to figure out what to do. I walked away so as to make clear to the ASM that I had nothing to do with his decision about my son. I got the answer later in the meeting when I was talking with the SM and my son came up and asked him for a conference. I think the ASM figured that my son got closer to doing a pullup the second time, and that that was "improvement."

 

I like KS's interpretation of the requirement though I doubt it is what the person who wrote it had in mind. "Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a..." Hmmm. It does not say "each" or "all" of the activities, but I guess I (and more importantly, the ASM who was testing my son) assumed that was what it meant. He just decided that doing "almost" one pullup was an "improvement" over "not even close."

[EagleInKY]

We don't require the boy to complete a legal pullup. We'd probably have some 14 year old "Scouts" if we did. But, the wording says to "show improvement in the activities listed", which sounds like it means "each". So, we gather around the chinup bar and encourage the boy to do his very best. We try to see him get half way or somewhere even close. In the end, we're looking for effort. If he's shown demonstrable improvement in the others, and only lacks the chinup, we move on.

[acco40]

Be careful with the word "effort." Actually, it the Scout in question can do the same with LESS effort, he has shown improved physical capability. I've seen my share of boys (mostly 10 & 11) who go through the activities listed (push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, quarter mile, jump, etc.) and then 30 days later try again. Without any concerted effort or training, most, if not all, improve due to a) physical abilities are usually on the increase at these ages, b) in my local, Michigan, most are coming off a sedentary winter and going into a more active summer, and c) more effort kicks in. That said, their is no minimal physical fitness requirement implied (i.e. need to do at least xxx amount or under xxx time). Boys at this age usually don't have much upper body strength. However, with minimal strength training over 30 days, improvement should be readily apparent.

 

Now, the question that I've seen debated is what if 45 days has passed when the boy is re-evaluated? The requirement states: "Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days." Now my interpretation is to show improvement in all of the activites individually and do it within the 30 day (within reason) window.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[EagleInKY]

Now, the question that I've seen debated is what if 45 days has passed when the boy is re-evaluated?

 

No big deal. He's practiced for 30 days, and then some. It doesn't say "exactly 30 days".

[ScoutNut]

I agree with meanpc, your SM is adding a requirement to the Tenderfoot rank. Nowhere does it say "complete a full pull-up". It says "show improvement". Improvement can be 1/8 inch closer to the bar than he was 30 days ago.

 

I feel bad for that boy your SM denied rank for a full year. How does the SM feel that adding this requirement, and making the boy and his parents feel like something was wrong with the boy, make this boy a better scout? Or even make the boy want to continue in scouting?

[mk9750]

We struggle with this same issue from time to time. We've dealt with it by judging how much of a single pull up was done the first time, measured in quarters, then require improvement.

 

I do, however, like both buffalo2's and KS's solutions. I may discuss this with a few folks and try to adopt one or the other. We've got a boy now who is only a few requirments away from 1st class, but can't get past this Tenderfoot requirement. He did 1/4 of a pull up 11 months ago, and still is doing 1/4 (or less) of a pull up now. His older brother (our newest Eagle Scout) has been working with him on weight training, but it has not helped.

 

Thanks for a great topic!

 

Mark

[EagleInKY]

Another thing we work on them with is technique. There are hard ways and "easier" ways of doing pullups. Some of the military dads in the troop know the difference. They've coached the kids on how to get a pullup with less effort. That is another way of showing improvement, correct?

[SR540Beaver]

I'll go with showing improvement in the majority of the tasks or even only being able to pull up 1/8 of an inch higher. I'm 47 and used to be a lot thinner than I am now. But even in my thinner, younger days when I used to lift some serious weight three times a week, I couldn't manage more than 1 or 2 pull ups. I could on the other hand leg press around 400 pounds. Some people have lower body strength, some have upper body strength, some have both, some are fast, some are slow. The requirement says show improvement. To hold a boy back who has all the requirements completed up to 1st class just because he can't do a pull up is......well, dumb. If you get a 98 on a test, you still get an A and move on. Let's apply a little dose of common sense.

[NeilLup]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I wanted to be an Eagle Scout and that required the Personal Fitness Merit Badge. For my age (13-14), that required one to do six pull ups.

 

I was a pudgy kid and there was no way in the world that I could do one pull up. It ended up taking me 18 months to get 6 pull ups.

 

One thing that one of my leaders suggested was putting the pull-up bar up hung with strong rubber bands rather than with rope. In this way, I could build muscle strength without pulling up my whole weight. As I got better, one could put more rubber bands and make the demands greater. Finally, I got to the point that I could lift my entire weight.

 

In a method like this, I could show improvement also.