And yet more changes - even Pedro is not spared

[carebear3895]

5 hours ago, FormerProfessional said:

I’m not a Surbaugh fan or hater. In his picture he wears 3 knots on his uniform. Eagle Scout, District Award of Merit, and the professional Darth Vader knot.  I know professionals with a DAM but they were awarded before they became a professional. I have never heard or met a professional with a DAM that was awarded it for being a professional.

The unofficial rule for professionals is one row of knots. Its super super super extremely mega rare, but a professional scouter can earn the DAM, but only while simultaneously being a volunteer. My guess is Surbaugh joined up with a pack or troop back in the day. 

[carebear3895]

3 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Point taken.  Instead of CSE, let's offer Mike Rowe the Chief Scout title.  I may have the exact wording of the title wrong, but it's a public/good will/ambassadorial type of job.  It's hasn't been filled by the BSA in years, if memory serves from prior threads.  Either way, I don't think the BSA would offer him the job for the same reason I mentioned in my previous post. 

So pretty much do what Scouts UK did. They awarded the title "Chief Scout" to Bear Grylls. Doesn't make any key decisions, but acts as the ceremonial head to the organization. 

National will never go for it. They love their key 3 setup too much

[scotteg83]

15 hours ago, David CO said:

Don't just voice your displeasure. Cancel your subscription. Stop donating to FoS. Stop selling popcorn. In short, hit em where it hurts.

 

 

15 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

Agreed.  

I can understand canceling your subscription.  But FOS and popcorn goes to your local council for fundraising, that council that had nothing to do with this change.

[walk in the woods]

9 hours ago, qwazse said:

That's the thing, the girls I want like the product we have. If they don't know that they'll like it, changing the name of the product doesn't help. Keep the name, add a tag line: "also for girls who like scouting." Sell, sell, sell.

Keeping the word boy in the name of the organization or the magazine would be perpetuating the patriarchal hierarchy of oppression........

[ParkMan]

3 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Keeping the word boy in the name of the organization or the magazine would be perpetuating the patriarchal hierarchy of oppression........

Or removing the word boy from the name and magazine of an organization for girls and boys would just be the logical thing to do.

[Eagle94-A1]

8 hours ago, David CO said:

I am separating this from my previous post in order to make it absolutely clear that I am not referring in any way to the CSE.

As a Health/Science teacher, I have taught boys about testicular cancer and how to do self-examinations to detect it. Since this disease often first appears in the teenage years, it is important that boys receive this instruction.

My awareness of this disease makes me mindful of just how intrusive it might be to ask someone why they don't have children. I understand that there might be many other reasons, both medical and social, but this is the first one that comes to mind.

For this reason, I would never ask someone, in either a professional or social situation, why that have not had children. 

 

Understood. I know how sensitive that question is. I have family and friends who are not capable of having children.  It is something I would not ask, in any situation nor something that can be legally asked when interviewing someone for a job. 

BUT, when someone brings it up themselves, and makes a point to show how they can dedicate themselves completely to a job because they do not have kids; then I consider it a legitimate concern. 

 

[qwazse]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Or removing the word boy from the name and magazine of an organization for girls and boys would just be the logical thing to do.

Nothing logical it, except for holed-up Madison Avenue ad men! It does not follow that scratching "boys" makes girls feel welcome.

Most every young woman who joined my crew beamed with pride when I gave them their membership card, shook their hand, and said, "Welcome to the Boy Scouts of America."

I once heard Tommy Hilfinger insist, "Never change your brand, ever."

You know what would really be cool? A wrap-around cover, that has "Boy's Life" on one side, "Life for Girls" on the other. Same content in the pages between!

[an_old_DC]

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Most every young woman who joined my crew beamed with pride when I gave them their membership card, shook their hand, and said, "Welcome to the Boy Scouts of America."

 

I have had the exact experience!

[David CO]

3 hours ago, scotteg83 said:

 

I can understand canceling your subscription.  But FOS and popcorn goes to your local council for fundraising, that council that had nothing to do with this change.

I disagree. If council actually acted like an independent organization with a charter from BSA, instead of behaving like a wholly owned arm of BSA, you might have a point. But it doesn't. BSA says jump, and the council asks "how high".

Council deserves to share the blame right along with national.

Edited May 25, 2018 by David CO

[Buggie]

56 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Nothing logical it, except for holed-up Madison Avenue ad men! It does not follow that scratching "boys" makes girls feel welcome.

I get why people feel that the magazine name change shouldn't have happened. Still I wonder, would you feel comfortable reading a magazine for the program if it was titled, "Girls Life"?  

[qwazse]

5 minutes ago, Buggie said:

I get why people feel that the magazine name change shouldn't have happened. Still I wonder, would you feel comfortable reading a magazine for the program if it was titled, "Girls Life"?  

@Buggie, if Women's Day had good hiking tips and back-country cooking recipes, I'd be on it like white on rice!

Since I was a scout, girls have been writing into "Pedro" about how much they liked the magazine (either their brother's or the library's).

Edited May 25, 2018 by qwazse

[Thunderbird]

14 minutes ago, Buggie said:

I get why people feel that the magazine name change shouldn't have happened. Still I wonder, would you feel comfortable reading a magazine for the program if it was titled, "Girls Life"?  

While I cannot speak for anybody else, as a female, I would have felt perfectly comfortable reading a magazine called "Boys Life".  If I were younger and joining the BSA because of its program, I would not want or expect the program to change its name or that of its magazine just to accommodate me.  Obviously, it would make sense to change a few things here and there (like the Family Life merit badge requirement on what it means to be an effective father).  But I don't see why changing the name of the program or the magazine is necessary or "Thrifty".

[ParkMan]

4 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

While I cannot speak for anybody else, as a female, I would have felt perfectly comfortable reading a magazine called "Boys Life".  If I were younger and joining the BSA because of its program, I would not want or expect the program to change its name or that of its magazine just to accommodate me.  Obviously, it would make sense to change a few things here and there (like the Family Life merit badge requirement on what it means to be an effective father).  But I don't see why changing the name of the program or the magazine is necessary or "Thrifty".

And as a boy, I'd have been just as comfortable reading a magazine called Scouts Life.

It's not the BSA changing it's name to accomodate a few people.  The intent of the BSA is to be co-ed.  Strikes me that they are making it pretty clear to girls that it's their program too now.

[qwazse]

13 hours ago, ParkMan said:

And as a boy, I'd have been just as comfortable reading a magazine called Scouts Life.

It's not the BSA changing it's name to accomodate a few people.  The intent of the BSA is to be co-ed.  Strikes me that they are making it pretty clear to girls that it's their program too now.

"Scouts" accommodates nobody. Fewer American boys than ever consider themselves scouts, even fewer girls. Let's not forget that "scouts" does not refer only to youth nor, thanks to the inflated sports industry, does it refer to territorial expedition forces.

I had yet to see balloons announcing a new arrival proclaim "It's a scout!"

A kid who is interested in literature for their age group is not going to type "scout magazine" in their search engine. They won't even have a clue that the word would apply to them. Their first search will be either "girls" or "boys". At the book store, the will look for those words in the title.

Be plain spoken. Pitch to your customers using the names that they call themselves.

[walk in the woods]

Q the name change has nothing to do with youth or what they want.  References to anything male will have to be struck from the program in order to deconstruct the patriarchal oppression it represents.The women on the thread who noted they wouldn't be bothered to read Boy's Life just don't realize they are victims of the oppression.

The Navy attempted to remove the word man from all it's rates in 2016 (e.g corpsman was deemed a sexist job title).  They failed not for lack of trying but due to general outrage from the rank and file.  The BSA won't face such headwinds. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by walk in the woods
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