And yet more changes - even Pedro is not spared

[JasonG172]

2 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

I wonder how we can get a petition started to voice no confidence in Michael Surbaugh and petition National to elect Mike Rowe as Chief Scout Exec?  

I'd be down for signing that!

[walk in the woods]

2 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Well, you probably won't want to hear this, but when folks like me were arguing in favor of gay scouts, gay scouters, and girls in the BSA, we weren't just talking about it on Internet forums. We were writing letters (not emails, typed letters, hand-signed and mailed) to various members of the Executive Board. We were donating money to groups like Scouts for Equality. We were signing petitions, making phine calls, and speaking up in any way that we could. 

This forum is great for discussion, but it doesn't actually give any of us a voice in any debate in a way that actually sways opinion. If you want to get things done, you should use your voice (and your pen, and your keyboard, and your printer paper and stamps) to be heard by anyone who you can find a phone number or mailing address for that can influence these things. 

I'd rather you didn't. 😉 But I'm just sayin', folks like me have been lound and clear on these issues for years, with the people making these decisions. If you haven't been, well, I think you can probably imagine how we got here then. 

Maybe but the odds of the BSA rolling back any of the recent changes is less than zero.  I'll just close my wallet, focus on my unit gor now, and see what happens.

[carebear3895]

2 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

how we can get a petition started to voice no confidence in Michael Surbaugh and petition National to elect Mike Rowe as Chief Scout Exec?  

Sadly that now how BSA executive positions work. For any position in professional BSA, you need to start as a DE and work your way up. You can't laterally transfer to any position without "paying your dues" as a  commissioned DE first.

Edited May 24, 2018 by carebear3895

[FireStone]

Just now, walk in the woods said:

Maybe but the odds of the BSA rolling back any of the recent changes is less than zero.  I'll just close my wallet, focus on my unit gor now, and see what happens.

I agree. It's probably too late.

I would just add that at the time I was writing some of those letters and voicing those concerns, I had very little faith that any changes would be made. I still did it, though, because it felt right to me. I think that some folks who may eventually walk away from this because of these changes might find some comfort in knowing that they at least spoke up, they did what they could to oppose what was happening, and in the end if they still have to walk away, they can do it knowing that they at least tried. 

[Saltface]

43 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I agree. It's probably too late.

I would just add that at the time I was writing some of those letters and voicing those concerns, I had very little faith that any changes would be made. I still did it, though, because it felt right to me. I think that some folks who may eventually walk away from this because of these changes might find some comfort in knowing that they at least spoke up, they did what they could to oppose what was happening, and in the end if they still have to walk away, they can do it knowing that they at least tried. 

This is a good method for making changes, but it doesn't work as well for undoing them. Without knowing what Irving intends to do, I have no way of knowing which issue to write about until the decision has already been made. 

[desertrat77]

5 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

 

I wonder how we can get a petition started to voice no confidence in Michael Surbaugh and petition National to elect Mike Rowe as Chief Scout Exec?  

G,

Mike Rowe would be an outstanding CSE.   Unfortunately, he'll never be selected.  Not in a million years.  Why?  He'd upstage everyone at HQ in Irving.  Without even trying.

[CalicoPenn]

27 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

G,

Mike Rowe would be an outstanding CSE.   Unfortunately, he'll never be selected.  Not in a million years.  Why?  He'd upstage everyone at HQ in Irving.  Without even trying.

Mike Rowe is an actor with a degree in communications studies.  His acting roles have given him a platform to make his opinions known but he has zero experience in running a multi-million dollar business.  Yes, he is an Eagle Scout - his Eagle Scout Project was reading to the blind.  Based on comments many have made in the past on this forum, if someone were to ask if reading to the blind would be a good Eagle Scout Project, most people would say no and lament about the quality of projects going downhill making the Eagle Scout rank less prestigious.

Michael Surbaugh is an experienced administrator with the BSA, working his way up from DE.  He has a degree in youth agency administration.  He is also an Eagle Scout - unfortunately, there is no handy information about what his project was.  

I suspect that even Mike Rowe would say that Michael Surbaugh is better qualified to be CSE than he is.

[Eagle94-A1]

While Surbaugh has risen through the ranks, that is part of his problem. He has not been a volunteer in a very long time, assuming he was a Scouter in college. And the bulk of his professional experience has been with Exploring and Learning for Life, and not traditional Scouting. From an interview somewhere, he deliberately had no children in order to focus on his career. That's another negative in my opinion because A) how can you relate to parents if you are not one and  B) How can you relate to modern youth when you have no kids of your own?

[FormerProfessional]

I’m not a Surbaugh fan or hater. In his picture he wears 3 knots on his uniform. Eagle Scout, District Award of Merit, and the professional Darth Vader knot.  I know professionals with a DAM but they were awarded before they became a professional. I have never heard or met a professional with a DAM that was awarded it for being a professional.

[desertrat77]

2 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

Mike Rowe is an actor with a degree in communications studies.  His acting roles have given him a platform to make his opinions known but he has zero experience in running a multi-million dollar business.  Yes, he is an Eagle Scout - his Eagle Scout Project was reading to the blind.  Based on comments many have made in the past on this forum, if someone were to ask if reading to the blind would be a good Eagle Scout Project, most people would say no and lament about the quality of projects going downhill making the Eagle Scout rank less prestigious.

Michael Surbaugh is an experienced administrator with the BSA, working his way up from DE.  He has a degree in youth agency administration.  He is also an Eagle Scout - unfortunately, there is no handy information about what his project was.  

I suspect that even Mike Rowe would say that Michael Surbaugh is better qualified to be CSE than he is.

Point taken.  Instead of CSE, let's offer Mike Rowe the Chief Scout title.  I may have the exact wording of the title wrong, but it's a public/good will/ambassadorial type of job.  It's hasn't been filled by the BSA in years, if memory serves from prior threads.  Either way, I don't think the BSA would offer him the job for the same reason I mentioned in my previous post. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by desertrat77

[qwazse]

5 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

I'm actually upset with this.....

Boys Life was actually one of the only magazines I knew geared towards young boys. There was 0 need to mess with it. 

Add a "girls life" if you wanted to be inclusive. 

That's the thing, the girls I want like the product we have. If they don't know that they'll like it, changing the name of the product doesn't help. Keep the name, add a tag line: "also for girls who like scouting." Sell, sell, sell.

[Gwaihir]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

While Surbaugh has risen through the ranks, that is part of his problem. He has not been a volunteer in a very long time, assuming he was a Scouter in college. And the bulk of his professional experience has been with Exploring and Learning for Life, and not traditional Scouting. From an interview somewhere, he deliberately had no children in order to focus on his career. That's another negative in my opinion because A) how can you relate to parents if you are not one and  B) How can you relate to modern youth when you have no kids of your own?

not being a parent, imo, is a HUGE negative against him when it's an organization dedicated to youth that's trying specifically trying to roll out "family scouting".  You cannot even begin to relate to the family unit if you don't have one of your own.  It's just one more ding against him coupled with a bevy of decisions he's been at the helm of... and honestly even with all that, it's the lying more than anything else that's at the heart of the problem! 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Gwaihir

[David CO]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

From an interview somewhere, he deliberately had no children in order to focus on his career. That's another negative in my opinion because A) how can you relate to parents if you are not one and  B) How can you relate to modern youth when you have no kids of your own?

This is getting a little too personal. I would never use this as a criteria for hiring a coach or choosing a unit scout leader. I would not want BSA to use parenthood as a basis to discriminate in their hiring or promotions. It's wrong.

 

 

[David CO]

I am separating this from my previous post in order to make it absolutely clear that I am not referring in any way to the CSE.

As a Health/Science teacher, I have taught boys about testicular cancer and how to do self-examinations to detect it. Since this disease often first appears in the teenage years, it is important that boys receive this instruction.

My awareness of this disease makes me mindful of just how intrusive it might be to ask someone why they don't have children. I understand that there might be many other reasons, both medical and social, but this is the first one that comes to mind.

For this reason, I would never ask someone, in either a professional or social situation, why that have not had children. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by David CO

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

That's the thing, the girls I want like the product we have. If they don't know that they'll like it, changing the name of the product doesn't help. Keep the name, add a tag line: "also for girls who like scouting." Sell, sell, sell.

Somehow I don't think the girls give two hoots whether it's called "Boys Life" or "Scout Life".

Since it looks like the editors did a search and replace on "Boys Life" and replaced it with "Scout Life".  They add a few more pictures with girls.  Sounds exactly like the same magazine to me.