Putting the pieces together - Where are we headed?

[Eagledad]

39 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

I hope you are right.

I think he is right. I believe it will be the best program for the families that want the kind of scouting that is coming. No program can be all things to all people. National is changing the filter of the kind of membership they want for their future. A pretty good comparison is the Canadian Scouts. Their program is no longer the world renown premier youth scouting program that it was 30 years ago, but it is attractive to a lot of members.  

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

For us, we are just keeping on with Scouting.  I'm working on some fundraising for our Pack, and my Wood Badge stuff, and the Troop is working on getting ready for summer camp.  So far, no big waves of change.  The Troop just had a brat sale and they did well, so it doesn't seem like they are getting any social flak, and the community supports them in their endeavors.  Oldest son is getting closer to First Class, they are working on some orienteering stuff this weekend.  Youngest is not making a lot of progress but he is 11 and I'm not worried over him, not much.  His older brother made second class by 2nd summer camp, I don't think #2 will be that far behind and he has earned a bunch of merit badges and a few Eagle Merit badges (swimming, first aid, citizenship in the nation) so I think he's accomplished a ton in the last year.  They just had a great biking outing on the Elroy Sparta bike trails and had fun. 

Our Pack might get girls in the fall or not, we don't know!  We'll take it one step at a time. 

[ScouterNorth]

31 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I think he is right. I believe it will be the best program for the families that want the kind of scouting that is coming. No program can be all things to all people. National is changing the filter of the kind of membership they want for their future. A pretty good comparison is the Canadian Scouts. Their program is no longer the world renown premier youth scouting program that it was 30 years ago, but it is attractive to a lot of members.  

Barry

This is the best summary I've seen so far.

Yes the program will survive in some form, but it will not be the same and actually cannot possibly stay the same.  When you change who you are marketing to then your membership will change and what they want in a program will change.

I came up during the program of Boy Scouts Canada 30 years ago.   I've since participated in the roll out of the new program of Scouts Canada.  The two can't even be compared as they are so incredibly different.  

The BSA's program will change.  Maybe not abruptly, but it will change and 10-15 years I'm guessing that  kids who are near 14-15 now will scarcely recognize it.

Whether that's or good or bad will be up to debate, but in the end only one metric will indicate success or failure from the Administration's point of view - Membership Numbers.

[NJCubScouter]

30 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

The Troop just had a brat sale...

That's a good idea.  We have a couple of brats in the troop who I wouldn't mind selling off.  Oh, not that kind of brat...

[FireStone]

Kind of related to my original post and where I think we are going from here, in particular modeling the BSA after Scouts UK, as it relates to uniforms I think we should expect more of the UK model there as well. In the "Adding Girls to the Pack" thread (page 9) on this forum there is a video with Anthony Berger, and towards the end he talks about how the WOSM regards just the neckerchief as being "in uniform". And he's wearing his neckerchief in the UK style, with the friendship knot. 

I fully expect to see more of this and a reduced emphasis on Class A uniforming in the BSA. I think we'll always have Class A, but more for ceremonies, COH, Blue & Gold, formal events, etc. In fact I think this video was pretty much confirmation (unofficially of course) that this is happening already. We should expect to see more of the UK-style larger neckers in the BSA, especially going into WSJ '19.  

[ParkMan]

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

Kind of related to my original post and where I think we are going from here, in particular modeling the BSA after Scouts UK, as it relates to uniforms I think we should expect more of the UK model there as well. In the "Adding Girls to the Pack" thread (page 9) on this forum there is a video with Anthony Berger, and towards the end he talks about how the WOSM regards just the neckerchief as being "in uniform". And he's wearing his neckerchief in the UK style, with the friendship knot. 

I fully expect to see more of this and a reduced emphasis on Class A uniforming in the BSA. I think we'll always have Class A, but more for ceremonies, COH, Blue & Gold, formal events, etc. In fact I think this video was pretty much confirmation (unofficially of course) that this is happening already. We should expect to see more of the UK-style larger neckers in the BSA, especially going into WSJ '19.  

That's one of my few purist hopes.  I do not want to see the uniform go away.  

[ParkMan]

6 hours ago, ScouterNorth said:

This is the best summary I've seen so far.

Yes the program will survive in some form, but it will not be the same and actually cannot possibly stay the same.  When you change who you are marketing to then your membership will change and what they want in a program will change.

I came up during the program of Boy Scouts Canada 30 years ago.   I've since participated in the roll out of the new program of Scouts Canada.  The two can't even be compared as they are so incredibly different.  

The BSA's program will change.  Maybe not abruptly, but it will change and 10-15 years I'm guessing that  kids who are near 14-15 now will scarcely recognize it.

Whether that's or good or bad will be up to debate, but in the end only one metric will indicate success or failure from the Administration's point of view - Membership Numbers.

Respectfully, I see it differently.

The program of the BSA really have never been the primary problem for the BSA.  It's been loss of interest.  Changing the basics of the program won't help.  What will help is a concerted effort to make it more fun.  Not fun through different badges, but more fun through a better understanding and application of the program we already have.

[oldbuzzard]

On 5/24/2018 at 12:04 PM, FireStone said:

Putting aside the doom-and-gloom ideas for a moment, let's think about what this all looks like in a few years, or maybe a decade, if all of the changes don't sink the BSA. National has to have some sort of plan (go ahead, laugh, but let's assume for a minute that they actually do have a plan), or at least some idea of what they are driving the organization towards. 

My guess? Look at Scouts UK. 

<snip>

Any other guesses as to what the BSA of the future might look like? Are we on a path that aligns with the UK program or something else? 

BSA, national and local, clearly sees an existential threat and is taking a broad approach to countering it.

I think the BSA is intentionally making two changes under the transition to "Family Scouting" and is making another change as part of the broader approach. I will term these three changes inclusion, institutionalism, and consumerism.

1) Inclusion: They clearly want to quickly juice the numbers by admitting girls. This is part of the reboot around gays etc. I assume that in the next few years all the added God bothering in the requirements will disappear and we'll end up with a nearly secular group. Uniforming could become lighter like Scouts UK of could move to optional uniforms like Venturing or Scouts Canada. I'm enthusiastic about these changes and don't think the doubters' concerns will come to pass.

2) Institutionalism: This change is part of the  goal to raise revenue and not purely related to "Family Scouting". BSA and councils clearly want to generate big home run projects without having to build programs slowly from the ground up.

This is obvious in STEM Scouts. I can imagine a great BSA stem-only initiative. My kids have been in a local maker group that could be a great model. DIY.org could be a model. All loosely structured and maker led. Partnering with Team America Rocketry Challenge, which schools and 4H use, could be a plan. Patriotic, potential large donors, could partner with NAR, fits with Cub Scout launch themes and BS merit badges. But instead STEM Scouts is something delivered in schools in a school-y format where they offer the program, BSA "provides" volunteers and collects fees.

Likewise, at the council level I see the desire for these home runs. Our council has built a new $17million headquarters and most of the justification about community engagement. They aren't only or perhaps even primarily looking to support  units. Before the upgrade they had a ropes course and climbing wall. Now they have a "leadership lab".  It is fairly clear their goal is to sell leadership course to the schools and corporations. Sign your entire student council up for a multisession leadership training.... just like NLTY w/o the camping.  The camps are also building lodges whose main purpose seems to be recruiting school environment education field trips, despite currently lacking staff to support that.

These more structured projects seem speculative and out of the current mission of BSA.

3) Consumerism: It seems like "Family Scoutng" is an excuse to monetise the current membership as much as possible. Out council has added $100+ council dues in the last  couple years, perhaps to fund the building spree. I assume National will be heading towards $100 dues shortly. Scouts Canada showed a pretty linear inverse trend of enrollment and dues. Hopefully open enrollment of girls can delay these huge dues hikes. That last Scout Stuff Flyer looked like an REI catalog. The councils are trying to sell family camp and so is national. Philmont Family Week is underwhelming. Everything at The Summit is worse. It has always seemed like a unsuccessful money  grab. The ATV stuff violates outdoor ethics and reeks of pay to play. These are all consumerist vacations, not real adventures. I'd look for a lodge at Philmont and an every other year Family Rendevous at Summit between Jambos and lots more marketing of expensive deluxe family events. Its Scouting as a lifestyle brand.

So I think the core Scouts BSA program may be strengthened by recent inclusion changes but overall the adventurous core program will likely be marginalized by other trends completely unrelated to girls.

Edited May 26, 2018 by oldbuzzard

[RememberSchiff]

Where are we headed?  Down a different path in a different way to a different destination?  Will this mean the Aims of Scouting will change or just the Methods or neither? Will the Scout Oath and Law change?

Here are my guesses,  random thoughts.

Initially this appeared to be a change in membership restrictions to recapture membership losses?, increase revenue?, to to help family?. to reflect American values?, tto be fair?  I don't know, but I am all for taking ALL kids who want to be Scouts. As stated there are no plans to change the program and I suppose in the short term that is true.

Seemingly there are other problems being addressed with new objectives:

      Increase Revenue  - increase fees across the board. More pressure on Councils to merge and sell/rent properties. STEM was about coed scouting to get into public schools and obtain GRANTS.  Public Schools is where the families, facilities, and money are. Will Corporate funding return? If so, it will be quid pro quo, i.e., product donations and corporate partnerships.

     Reduce Liabilities  - Despite YP,  new lawsuits of recent abuses continue. Despite training and GTSS, scout injuries and deaths continue. So spread the responsibility by bringing in parents (Family Scouting) and outsourcing outdoor leadership (hire professional guides, attend National camps) and create safe havens - low adventure, low risk activities.

  Regarding Scouting Methods:

      Ideals - will it shift from Scout to Family?

      Patrol Method - National has marginalized this method to the point of ignoring it. A Troop will be a group of Families, not Patrols. Kids will not join to get away from Mom And Dad;  families will join to come together so kids can see Mom and Dad and Mom and Dad can see their kids. Patrols will be temporary groups for activities, maybe patrols will be a group of families?

      Family Method - replaces Patrol Method, reduces unit/CO/BSA liability as parents are present.  Is it me or does the BSA appears to be teaching parenting? With this  comes significant infrastructure improvements to accommodate families. FOS becomes Families of Scouting, just like the Boys' Life changed its name. Will families be the charter organization? I predict more religious groups will drop Scouts and form their own youth groups.

      Outdoor Programs - shorter outings to fit schedules, unless it is trek by licensed guides or at a National facility.

      Advancement -  There is so much that needs fixing here and maybe more involved adults will be a positive force. Are standardized advancement tests coming?

     Adult Association - yes, but let's call it what it is - Adult Domination. Will Troop Committee become Conference of Families?  Will there be any scout-run troops?  Maybe this will force out volunteers with no children ?

     Personal Growth -  will be more about Family time, respect, needs, and togetherness than Good Turn.  I have had numerous over-scheduled families tell me they are tired of community service. I pay taxes which should cover that! I need my son to rake and mow our lawn, in fact bring the whole troop over to clear our yard paint our trim. Helping others includes family!  To them, helping the community starts at helping families.

      Leadership Method - continues to be a huge selling point and revenue source. All talk though, like those Future ( whatever) of America conferences marketed to high school kids. Will a scout lead even a short walk to mess hall? Wait for two adults Terry. 

     Uniform Method - this method was added in the mid 80's. I never saw the need as the uniform remains optional. Someone at National will figure out more money can be made by selling expensive tee-shirts/tops, caps, and neckers to families  than Class A's and patches to scouts.

I think the Scout program will focus on families coming together, dealing with teen issues (bullying, internet, drugs, now sex too??) and other family needs, and having fun. 

Whatever comes will be different, but how will the success be determined and in what time frame?  Surely there must be a 5 year strategic plan complete with "pillars", "tiers", "stakeholders",  "rubrics", ...

Not all the changes I predict (and I could be totally wrong)  are bad in my opinion. As I typed my thoughts, I was reminded in the HUGE change to Wood Badge some years back yet the name remained the same. At least that mistake was not repeated.

My $0.01,

Edited May 26, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

RememberSchiff,

That was a lot to say in one post. You covered a lot of territory, but you seemed to have forgotten that scout units are owned and operated by Chartered Organizations. You never even mentioned the CO's.

 

[RememberSchiff]

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

RememberSchiff,

That was a lot to say in one post. You covered a lot of territory, but you seemed to have forgotten that scout units are owned and operated by Chartered Organizations. You never even mentioned the CO's.

I wondered if "families will be the charter organization" but I did not expand on that thought.  I think CO's will be replaced by hands-off sponsors who provide a meeting space and possibly storage. Our current CO actually does none of that, so what's the point?  The days of a CO using scouting to provide their youth program are closing. My son's never-ending Confirmation process resembles scouting.

In the last 20 years with 4 different CO's only one took interest and provided a meeting and storage space. That church is now considering forming their own youth group, as none of their youth are members of the troop.

My $0.02 for more rambling,

 

 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Will Troop Committee become Conference of Families?  Will there be any scout-run troops?  Maybe this will force out volunteers with no children ?

The unit committee and other unit leadership are chosen by the CO. I doubt that this will change. 

 

[David CO]

7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The days of a CO using scouting to provide their youth program are closing.

...and we are seeing a steady drop in youth participation as a result.

 

[shortridge]

Thanks to @FireStone for that great defense of optimism. I’m also extremely enthusiastic for the future of Scouting. My daughter, who’s turning 14 this summer, will have the choice of Venturing or Scouts. She’ll have the choice to join the OA, if selected. She’ll have the choice to pursue Eagle, if interested. Put simply, she’ll have the choice to join the best youth outdoor program in the country. And I can’t help but be all in for that.

 

I’m not knowledgeable enough to opine on the issues of membership declines, council mergers, or Summit debt. I do know that my family will become a whole-hearted supporter of Scouting precisely because of the changes over the last five years. If I was good enough for the BSA, then my daughter is as well. That is a positive affirmation that will speak to many families. And that, to me, is what family Scouting is about.

 

I really don’t think we’re going to see a cultural change within Scouts BSA to bring parents and younger siblings along. I think we will see an expanded adult leader base from the parents of new female Scouts, and to a lesser extent from younger parents who were opposed to the homophobic policies of the past.

 

This new generation of Scouts is going to be great and put us older folks to shame. I can’t wait.

 

P.S. On uniforms? I grew up wearing ODL and hated it. The more functional the uniform gets, including full neckers, the better. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by shortridge

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, shortridge said:

I really don’t think we’re going to see a cultural change within Scouts BSA to bring parents and younger siblings along. I think we will see an expanded adult leader base from the parents of new female Scouts, and to a lesser extent from younger parents who were opposed to the homophobic policies of the past.

Well, that a pretty anti religious statement. Ironically it also suggests an exclusive program as well. 

So many unbias (friendly) words could have been chosen to make the same point.

Barry