From National Annual Meeting: OA Eligibility Updates

[Gwaihir]

10 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

I have a feeling that the scouts in this area will just keep on doing AoL ceremonies for the cubs.   Just without the sashes.   

This is what we're getting from the new Scouts, it's like the reformation.  "the scouts in this area will just let their patrols go on activities together without adults, just without uniforms" "the troop in this area will just have co-ed patrols" "the lodge in this area will keep doing AoL ceremonies, just without sashes"  "the pack in this area will just have male leadership with the girl cubs because we can't get women involved" 

[John-in-KC]

Here's a link to NCOA on Facebook. Same message. 

 

Note VENTURERS are included as eligible youth members. 

[Oldscout448]

11 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

  "the scouts in this area will just let their patrols go on activities together without adults, just without uniforms" "

But isn't that what scouts was intended to be from its very beginning?    A group of boys hiking and camping and learning together?   

[Gwaihir]

6 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

But isn't that what scouts was intended to be from its very beginning?    A group of boys hiking and camping and learning together?   

yep, the uniform and the structure were to give form to what boys were doing anyway.  we're going to go back to ignoring the uniform and the structure. 

[qwazse]

24 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

This is what we're getting from the new Scouts, it's like the reformation.  "the scouts in this area will just let their patrols go on activities together without adults, just without uniforms" "the troop in this area will just have co-ed patrols" "the lodge in this area will keep doing AoL ceremonies, just without sashes"  "the pack in this area will just have male leadership with the girl cubs because we can't get women involved" 

Mamma don't allow no hiking/camping independently with your mates 'round here ....

The real reformation: NESA extends open invites to Summit and Quatermaster (dare I say even GS/Gold) awardees.

[Gwaihir]

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Mamma don't allow no hiking/camping independently with your mates 'round here ....

The real reformation: NESA extends open invites to Summit and Quatermaster (dare I say even GS/Gold) awardees.

Now you're treading on the very impetus for all this co-ed kerfuffle in the first place... 

"I want to earn eagle scout too", if you put Gold Award on the same page in the public eye as Eagle Scout... well, Eagle scout just won't be as special anymore, now would it.  Yeah, I don't see the BSA's number one marketing tool (much to my chagrin) being undermined by non-Eagle awards. 

[mashmaster]

2 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

Disappointing.  Opening it up to girl Scouts would make sense, but it's very much a "Boy Scout (as in program, not umbrella company)" organization, not an Explorer org, Air Scout org, Sea Scout org, etc and I feel like it should have been kept that way.  I really wouldn't be surprised if the Lenni Lanape Lore that is at the foundation of the Order is dropped entirely in 5 years.  

I am not why this is disappointing.  I have never understood why Venture scouts with the camping and rank shouldn't be allowed to become members.  They seem to have leveled the playing field by requiring similar rank requirements that are context sensitive to each program.  

[mashmaster]

38 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Now you're treading on the very impetus for all this co-ed kerfuffle in the first place... 

"I want to earn eagle scout too", if you put Gold Award on the same page in the public eye as Eagle Scout... well, Eagle scout just won't be as special anymore, now would it.  Yeah, I don't see the BSA's number one marketing tool (much to my chagrin) being undermined by non-Eagle awards. 

From the Girls I know that got the Gold award and being part of that process, I hold that award higher than Eagle.  The requirements are much more involved.   I have seen many paper Eagles.  Those Eagles are the one undermining the Eagle rank.

[Gwaihir]

13 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

From the Girls I know that got the Gold award and being part of that process, I hold that award higher than Eagle.  The requirements are much more involved.   I have seen many paper Eagles.  Those Eagles are the one undermining the Eagle rank.

I don't disagree with you at all.  In fact, prior to national's decision, my argument to women and those who felt Girl Scouts inadequate and their top award not the same as Eagle, was that the Gold Award was every bit as prestigious and in recent years much more prestigious than Eagle Scout and the Girls scouts should be doing a better job of promoting and advertising how much of an achievement it is to earn the Gold Award.  My post was commentary against National and against those families that lamented their girls not being able to earn Eagle and having to be relegated to the "lesser" Gold award. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Gwaihir
typo

[an_old_DC]

big open field + tent city + few actual unit leaders + adolescent male and female "Arrow-people" mixing freely....

[Chris1]

7 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

This is incredibly disappointing. 

Plus the whole backdoor approach to allowing previous years of experience and camping to retroactively count rubs salt in the wound.

Why shouldn't their previous camping under the Boy Scout program count? I think this is long overdue and Counting camping in the past 2 years for venture is only logical.

A (mostly) level and fair playing field

[gblotter]

9 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

I really wouldn't be surprised if the Lenni Lanape Lore that is at the foundation of the Order is dropped entirely in 5 years.  

I previously knew almost nothing about OA. A few weeks ago, I attended induction weekend with three of my Scouts. It was a meaningful event for all of us. However, when observing the various Indian-themed ceremonies, the first thing to enter my mind was "this piece of cultural appropriation won't be around for much longer". I agree - it will surely be dropped soon (heck - I'm frankly surprised it has endured so long in this PC era). I'm glad we could experience it before it's gone.

Edited May 24, 2018 by gblotter

[Saltface]

4 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

big open field + tent city + few actual unit leaders + adolescent male and female "Arrow-people" mixing freely....

[FireStone]

11 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

Where did you hear that?  The OA isn't the OA anymore if you drop the Lenni Lanape Lore.  

It could be. It just means making the effort to change the script. The lore isn't the only thing that makes the OA what it is. Sure it's rooted in Lenape history and style, but what makes it special is the mystique about it, the secretiveness, the ceremonies (the act of carrying out the ceremonies, not necessarily the exact lore behind them), etc. 

Swap any cultural lore into an OA ceremony and to me I think it would be just as cool. Imagine an OA based on pacific island culture, island ceremony, dance, and regalia. I think that would easily be just as impressive. I'm not saying to just appropriate another culture, but I think that the OA doesn't need to be entirely dependent on a specific brand of cultural lore to maintain the image of a brotherhood, an honor society, or a somewhat mysterious secretive group. 

Keep the brotherhood, the honor, the core of the organization, and instead of wrapping it in Lenape, wrap it in something else. Or create something else around it. Maybe this is actually an opportunity for the OA to recreate itself in an image that the OA can say is entirely their own. 

[qwazse]

5 hours ago, FireStone said:

... Keep the brotherhood, the honor, the core of the organization, and instead of wrapping it in Lenape, wrap it in something else. ...

Already done. My Arab speaking friends call it Dae'sh.