Condom Distribution at World Jamboree

[Hawkwin]

I find the contrast between the country that birthed scouting and our own on this topic to be interesting. I went looking and found the following:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=299,303,412

Not only is it permitted for scouters to discuss this topic, it appears it is encouraged.

One snip:

If you are asked about contraceptive methods or other sexual health matters, you should try to provide relevant information. This information could include the details of local contraceptive services and the location of local sexual health clinics. If asked, you should try to provide details of local emergency contraception provision, which you can obtain from the local Teenage Pregnancy Coordinator.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Hawkwin
Ha! pun not intended!

[Hawkwin]

Another piece from the other side of the pond:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/EcommsDocs/MyBodyMyChoice.pdf

[ParkMan]

29 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

no. again, not a difficult concept.  I have repeatedly stated that what's being called into question is why we want a game that is opposite our rules in the first place.  I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept. 

Honestly I think this is a much better question.  Should the BSA participate in or host a WSJ if the rules in conflict with our own G2SS.

Me - I'd say yes.  The experience of a WSJ is significant enough that attending is worth the exception for these cases.  

Further, the BSA should make it crystal clear to a participant from within the BSA that the rules are different.  Make parents sign a document stating that they are aware of this difference.

 

[Saltface]

4 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Another piece from the other side of the pond:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/EcommsDocs/MyBodyMyChoice.pdf

This looks like the kind of garbage we burn the Girl Scouts in effigy over.

[ParkMan]

7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

This looks like the kind of garbage we burn the Girl Scouts in effigy over.

Yeah - not sure what it is about the BSA, but we always seem to be influenced a lot more by our conservative members.  The GSUSA not so much.

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

Condescension?  Condensation involves water. 

Hey! Walk the talk!

Wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense either.😳

barry

[David CO]

1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

Yeah - not sure what it is about the BSA, but we always seem to be influenced a lot more by our conservative members.  The GSUSA not so much.

I know what it is. We have Chartered Organizations. They don't.

Edited May 23, 2018 by David CO

[Gwaihir]

10 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Another piece from the other side of the pond:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/EcommsDocs/MyBodyMyChoice.pdf

...................

4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Honestly I think this is a much better question.  Should the BSA participate in or host a WSJ if the rules in conflict with our own G2SS.

Me - I'd say yes.  The experience of a WSJ is significant enough that attending is worth the exception for these cases.  

Further, the BSA should make it crystal clear to a participant from within the BSA that the rules are different.  Make parents sign a document stating that they are aware of this difference.

 

it's the only question I've been asking, and one I think is worth discussion. 

[Hawkwin]

20 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

...................

it's the only question I've been asking, and one I think is worth discussion. 

I don't see an immediate concern. As it currently stands, many CO's and Troops have rules more restrictive than BSA, yet those troops still go to regional and national scouting events.

Just because our Scouts go to an event that has less restrictions on some topics doesn't mean we as scouters have to lessen our standards of conduct. In other words, we are still well within our right to tell our scouts that it is a violation to engage in such behavior even if the WOSM makes condoms available upon request. I would assume many of us have schools and other organizations within our communities that also would provide such for free upon request but we don't (necessarily) pull our kids from such because the school or community might have less restrictions on behavior than we do.

If the WOSM had a different and lower standard is it pertains to Safe Swim Defense, I would certainly hope our scouters would still tell our scouts that they are prohibited from swimming unless they passed OUR standards. Doesn't mean we would tell WOSM to get lost for not applying the standards of the home country. If that was the case, that every host country could force the WOSM to create new rules every four years based on the social norms of the host country, then the Jamboree would only ever be in the most socially liberal countries.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Hawkwin

[ParkMan]

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

I know what it is. We have Chartered Organizations. They don't.

I think that's part of it.  It's not the CO model itself, but the fact that individual religions represent large proportions of the COs.  When you have any religion that is 10% of the COs, I have to imagine they will influence policy.

I think there are probably others.  One is the headquarters location.  BSA - Irving, TX.  GSUSA - NYC.  I have to imagine some of these things are influenced by the working staff in the headquarters office.  

 

[FireStone]

2 hours ago, gblotter said:

In summer 2019, girl troops and boy troops will start attending BSA summer camps at the same time. Following your logic, should condoms be made available to Scouts by camp staff (regardless of what G2SS says)? Or should G2SS be changed to permit sexual activity at Scouting events?

I think my "logic" will differ a little when we're talking about a BSA-only event. We're talking about a global event here, so a little flexibility and understanding that other scouting organizations and their approach to this topic maybe being different from ours would make sense to me. 

In the BSA specifically, the availability of condoms is a little odd to me because asking for one means you just became eligible for possible expulsion from the organization. I'd be very surprised if any BSA scout goes to WSJ '19 and asks for a condom knowing that it might be the last thing they do in Scouting. Or second-to-last thing anyway. But even that is still preferable in my opinion, if the alternative is doing it unprotected and risking far more than their Scouting career. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by FireStone

[JoeBob]

5 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

What's your vector Victor?

I want clearance, Clarence!

Or at least clarity.  West Virginia age of consent is 16.  Minimum age for WSJ attendance is 14.  Giving condoms to 14 & 15 year old kids should be a concern.

What are the reporting requirements?  "Hey Scout Mom; you should be proud!  Your son asked for 12 condoms over 7 days, and I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a water balloon fight."

[gblotter]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Me - I'd say yes.  The experience of a WSJ is significant enough that attending is worth the exception for these cases.

Me - I'd say no. I would prefer my son experience those things in the setting of a National Jamboree where G2SS rules apply.

 

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Further, the BSA should make it crystal clear to a participant from within the BSA that the rules are different.  Make parents sign a document stating that they are aware of this difference.

This is one area of complete agreement. Scouting families should have it spelled out to them in clear language the specific differences in behavior standards between BSA G2SS and WOSM - and it is a great idea to make parents sign a document about such. However, my bet is that BSA avoids all mention of this because they don't want to depress attendance at the event (for their own financial motivations).

[JoeBob]

6 minutes ago, gblotter said:

However, my bet is that BSA avoids all mention of this

I'm still wondering what landmine we triggered in the other topic.

[ParkMan]

7 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

I'm still wondering what landmine we triggered in the other topic.

Does kinda seem like the same thread doesn't it