Condom Distribution at World Jamboree

[Cambridgeskip]

17 years of working in government here quickly killed off any thoughts of conspiracy in the corridors of power. I suspect the same is true of many other large organisations

Edited May 23, 2018 by John-in-KC

[Gwaihir]

32 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

 (forgetting for a minute that they've been in since the 70s).

funny post, but this is straw man.  girls were not allowed in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts since the 70s.   

[RememberSchiff]

Please stay on topic, thanks

@NJCubScouter @John-in-KC

[Eagledad]

20 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Obviously, leadership is playing the ultimate long game.  In 2002 our present leaders saw that condoms were available at World Jamboree, so launched a campaign to host the 2019 Jambo in the US, knowing the firestorm that would rain down, very much like the prophylactics that will surely rain down as they're launched from one of those T-Shirt cannons into the crowds.   Their superior foresight and planning skills also allowed this apocalypse to coincide with the world-shocking announcement to allow girls into Boy Scouts (forgetting for a minute that they've been in since the 70s).  Now their master plan is coming together and they will soon launch the final phase of BSA's destruction from within...allowing adults to go back and earn their Eagle.

I'm not entirely sure how well this tin-foil hat plan meshes with those that say BSA leadership has terrible vision and planning ability, but if there's one thing I've learned over the years it is that conspiracy theories don't necessarily need a whole lot of logic to be believed. 

Wow! That is quite good. I can see clever satirical humor is the method to get malicious posts past the moderators on this forum. I admit being enthralled by the shrewd approach for throwing the clever spiteful wit in the faces of target audience, who themselves laugh, if not applaud.  Calling this form of dialogue "unscout-like" just seems adolescent. This is adult condensation at it's best.  

Still, as good and entertaining as it is, the source of motivation is still uncontrolled emotional without balance of humility. It's directing anger to belittle and denigrate opposing opinions. Is that how we want our youth to discuss differences? The wit is clever, but is it mature. 

On the face, such humor would be a welcomed tool to balance the emotion generated by opposing ideas of which we disagree. But does it sway minds. Does it show respect? Would it really be a under the category of intellectual dialogue?

Barry

 

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

Ok then. The juvenil behavior has gotten tiresome. 

@NJCubScouter @John-in-KC

[69RoadRunner]

The reference to BSA not approving this policy was perhaps misstated on my part.  The BSA does not promote the policy but WOSM does.

As far as my opinion that the organization is being destroyed from within, take a look at membership.  No question there are many contributors to the drop in membership, but recent policy changes have, in my opinion, contributed to the decline.

I'm sure many of you have seen this, but I think Mike Rowe presents better ideas.

http://fox13now.com/2018/05/20/mike-rowe-of-dirty-jobs-weighs-in-on-girls-in-the-boy-scouts/

[Pale Horse]

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

But does it sway minds. Does it show respect? Would it really be a under the category of intellectual dialogue?

My post was directed at those that believe National is on a deliberate path to destroy BSA and accuse them of moral turpitude.  Are those posts respectful of leadership or fall within intellectual dialogue? 

Regarding swaying minds...I'd venture that the vast majority (dare i say 90%+) of forumn posts never come close to convincing anyone to change their mind.  

[Eagledad]

55 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

My post was directed at those that believe National is on a deliberate path to destroy BSA and accuse them of moral turpitude.  Are those posts respectful of leadership or fall within intellectual dialogue? 

Yes. The posters honestly believe what they are saying. We had a long discussion about this last week. Just because you agree doesn't mean they don't believe it themselves.

55 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Regarding swaying minds...I'd venture that the vast majority (dare i say 90%+) of forumn posts never come close to convincing anyone to change their mind.  

Are you saying the posters themselves aren't intellectual or that their posts aren't presented intellectually? Never mind, there is no good answer.

You seem to be trying to convince me that some condensation at other people is justifiable. Under which point of the Scout Law would you teach that to a scout?

Barry

Edited May 23, 2018 by Eagledad

[Pale Horse]

You keep assuming some level of condensation, not sure why.  Further, just because someone believes it's true, doesn't make it true.  Nor does it give someone any more right to speak negatively about leadership than I have to, as you say "speak condescendingly to them".

To counter your point, what part of the Scout Law would accusing someone of un-scoutlike behaviour fall?  I believe your logical fallicy falls somewhere along the lines of "No true Scotsman...", or more apropos, "No true Scout..." 

[John-in-KC]

A Scouter is Courteous. 

[69RoadRunner]

My comment about it being intentional was tongue in cheek.  It's a means to criticize really bad decision making, in my opinion.

[John-in-KC]

1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The reference to BSA not approving this policy was perhaps misstated on my part.  The BSA does not promote the policy but WOSM does.

WOSM authorizes World Jamborees. Their H/S rules apply.  What's so difficult in that?

[gblotter]

3 hours ago, FireStone said:

Otherwise this is just a cover for being upset about the membership policy changes.

One more log on the fire is a better analogy.

Rather than blame the messenger (media outlets), why not blame (and change) the WOSM policy that makes Scouting a vulnerable target for criticism? And some blame should be appropriately focused on BSA for acting as if they have no leverage over WOSM on the issue.

[walk in the woods]

 

3 hours ago, FireStone said:

BSA families have been sending scouts to World Jambo all this time, though. Surely this isn't an issue now just because the condoms are being made available on US soil. If there is any outrage about this now, there should have been the same 4 years ago. Otherwise this is just a cover for being upset about the membership policy changes. 

There's a difference in a Scout and his/her parents making an informed decision about an event and its rules vs. the BSA endorsing a set of rules in contravention of its own policies.

3 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I'd just be upfront with my families about it.  Something like:

This is a World Organization of the Scouting Movement (WOSM) event and these are their rules.  The BSA under the terms of the agreement to serve as host is bound to implement the WOSM rules.  The BSA is working to implement those rules in a way that is consistent with the BSA's values - but ultimately the BSA will comply with tho WOSM rules.  The however, does not indicate a change in the rules of the BSA itself.  This is a unique situation due to the nature of this specific event.

We as parents and leaders may have preferred for the BSA to withdraw from the event, but ultimately the BSA did not.

If you (as parents) are uncomfortable with this decision, you should not send their Scout to the World Jamboree.

The G2SS very clearly says, No Alcohol, No Sexual Activity allowed at scout events.  There's no asterisk.   "WOSM made me do it" is weak tea.

[Gwaihir]

13 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

WOSM authorizes World Jamborees. Their H/S rules apply.  What's so difficult in that?

The difficulty is that the US BSA doesn't have to host an event that goes against it's own laws and policies.  If one is to take an Oath and a Law seriously, and to be loyal and trustworthy to the rules and policies set forth, one should abide by those policies even when others tell you it's ok to ignore them.  I mean, this is fundamental stuff we teach our scouts every day in the field...