2018 GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING

[WonderBoy]

2 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

 It also might be a contributing factor as to why 90% of American teens don't want to be bothered with Scouting.  

...and a healthy percentage of parents too. How do you recruit needed and necessary volunteers when you spend more time explaining what they can't do with the kids than what they can (or should) do with them?

I'm "WonderBoy" because I keep wondering what happened to the fun experiences I was able to have as a Cub and Scout...

[Jameson76]

17 minutes ago, WonderBoy said:

...and a healthy percentage of parents too. How do you recruit needed and necessary volunteers when you spend more time explaining what they can't do with the kids than what they can (or should) do with them?.

Not only G2SS but also the NEW AND IMPROVED YPT.  Have any of you taken that yet?  First what they present is valuable information and we as leaders should be aware and understand the potential issues.

That being said, the new YPT veers heavily from  "what to do" type training; if this happens do this, don't do this, etc to a very heavy and constant drumbeat of how much of a public health crisis that child exploitation is at this time.  If I were a new parent volunteer, the tone of the training may make think twice, especially as the comments on being a mandatory reporter, etc

As with the G2SS the YPT rules, while overall simple, can cause confusion.  Most frequent is the two deep leadership and one on one contact.  Two deep is required for an outing, that does not mean anytime a leader is around there has to be two of you.  Same with one on one contact, you are at summer camp and come across one of your scouts walking to his next class.  No reason you cannot walk with him and chat with him about camp (he is by himself as no other troop member is taking that class at that time)

 

[NJCubScouter]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

So, what is the GTSS:  

All participants in official Scouting activities should become familiar with the Guide to Safe Scouting, applicable program literature or manuals, and be aware of state or local government regulations that supersede Boy Scouts of America practices, policies, and guidelines. The Guide to Safe Scouting is an overview of Scouting policies and procedures gleaned from a variety of sources. For some items, the policy statements are complete. Unit leaders are expected to review the additional reference material cited prior to conducting such activities.

In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners.

@RichardB, does the BSA realize that at some point, the cost and risk of volunteering ("cost" including time, and "risk" including statements such as appear above) is going to make people stop volunteering?  I think that for some people, the point has already been reached.  I also think that if all leaders actually read the Guide to Safe Scouting, a large number would decide that the point has been reached for them as well.  Does the BSA recognize this as a problem and have a solution?  Or is it just our problem?

[Jameson76]

9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

@RichardB, does the BSA realize that at some point, the cost and risk of volunteering ("cost" including time, and "risk" including statements such as appear above) is going to make people stop volunteering?  I think that for some people, the point has already been reached.  I also think that if all leaders actually read the Guide to Safe Scouting, a large number would decide that the point has been reached for them as well.  Does the BSA recognize this as a problem and have a solution?  Or is it just our problem?

That would depend on what you view as providing an engaging and challenging program.  To be fully compliant with the G2SS is possible, but that is sort of like building something in a major city, yes you can conform to the 600 pages of building codes, but is that even something you want to do?

Most of do the best we can and the goal is to safely bring home the youth in our charge

[NJCubScouter]

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

That would depend on what you view as providing an engaging and challenging program.  To be fully compliant with the G2SS is possible, but that is sort of like building something in a major city, yes you can conform to the 600 pages of building codes, but is that even something you want to do?

The problem is that you never know in advance which page that you skip (in the building code or the G2SS) is going to come back and bite you in the end - and in the wallet.

[walk in the woods]

28 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

As with the G2SS the YPT rules, while overall simple, can cause confusion.  Most frequent is the two deep leadership and one on one contact.  Two deep is required for an outing, that does not mean anytime a leader is around there has to be two of you.  Same with one on one contact, you are at summer camp and come across one of your scouts walking to his next class.  No reason you cannot walk with him and chat with him about camp (he is by himself as no other troop member is taking that class at that time)

 

That certainly is the way I used to understand the rules, and it's certainly in keeping with my community's norms, but, it's not clear to me that's still the official policy.

One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.

• In situations requiring a personal conference, the meeting is to be conducted with the knowledge and in view of other adults and/or youth.

The first statement is direct and surprisingly clear for the BSA, even if it is a ridiculous overreach of policy.  The second makes a particular statement about the observer needing to have knowledge of the conference.  Can I walk across camp with a scout any more?   IDK.  But if somebody in camp reads this policy like a petty bureaucrat/tyrant I could be reported to the BSA hotline.  Not sure it's worth the effort any more.

Edited May 31, 2018 by walk in the woods
clarity

[David CO]

21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

@RichardB, does the BSA realize that at some point, the cost and risk of volunteering ("cost" including time, and "risk" including statements such as appear above) is going to make people stop volunteering?  I think that for some people, the point has already been reached.  I also think that if all leaders actually read the Guide to Safe Scouting, a large number would decide that the point has been reached for them as well.  Does the BSA recognize this as a problem and have a solution?  Or is it just our problem?

Yes. Joining scouting can be a bit like reading all of the warnings and disclaimers on a medicine package. Knowing all the possible side-effects of a medicine can really discourage a person from taking it.

[cyphertext]

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Uncle.  Ya'll do what you want here. 

I just don't think the answer to G2SS rules you don't like is to pretend you're not acting as a Scouting group while you break them.  But, if that what you want to do and argue it's OK - go for it.

 

Sometimes that is the only way...  For example, my son and his patrol, as well as other boys in the troop like to play paintball.  I like to play as well, so I go too.  Clearly can not be a Scout outing, as the G2SS does not allow scouts to play paintball.  But according to the new G2SS, I would still be in violation as a registered leader and being the only adult leader there.  Sorry, but sometimes a group of Scouts all doing something together does not equal a Scouting group.

Edited May 31, 2018 by cyphertext

[NJCubScouter]

55 minutes ago, David CO said:

Yes. Joining scouting can be a bit like reading all of the warnings and disclaimers on a medicine package. Knowing all the possible side-effects of a medicine can really discourage a person from taking it.

I especially enjoy the pharmaceutical ads in which they are trying to sell you an asthma medicine where one of the possible side effects is that you may have trouble breathing.  Or a medicine to deal with digestive problems that may cause digestive problems.  (They don't say it exactly that way, of course, but that is what it adds up to.)  A related thing that amuses me is ads for both minor things (like a skin rash) and major things (like a medication for people who have already had a heart attack) both often have possible side effects that may be fatal.  I would be a little more likely to chance the fatal side effects if the thing I am trying to remedy (like having a second heart attack) is likely to be fatal all by itself.

But if we are going to analogize this to the BSA, when you volunteer for the BSA they don't really tell you about the possible "side effects."  In days of yore it didn't matter as much, but now the BSA works overtime churning out rules and regulations and obscure "codes of conduct" to shift the potential cost of a problem from them to "us," and most of "us" (not counting people who read this forum) don't even know it.

Edited May 31, 2018 by NJCubScouter

[walk in the woods]

20 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I especially enjoy the pharmaceutical ads in which they are trying to sell you an asthma medicine where one of the possible side effects is that you may have trouble breathing.  Or a medicine to deal with digestive problems that may cause digestive problems.  (They don't say it exactly that way, of course, but that is what it adds up to.)  A related thing that amuses me is ads for both minor things (like a skin rash) and major things (like a medication for people who have already had a heart attack) both often have possible side effects that may be fatal.  I would be a little more likely to chance the fatal side effects if the thing I am trying to remedy (like having a second heart attack) is likely to be fatal all by itself.

"Do not take flimflamasol if you are allergic to flimflamasol" is my favorite.

[Jameson76]

37 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

"Do not take flimflamasol if you are allergic to flimflamasol" is my favorite.

This pretty much cover it all....

[The Latin Scot]

 

[69RoadRunner]

At summer camp, I had some down time while the boys were at their merit badges and I was the only one at our site, sitting in a chair reading a book.  One scout came back to the site.  Does one of us have to leave?

I think the arguments that this is mostly about BSA doing CYA for BSA and damn the scouters is correct.

There's no question that safe scouting and YPT rules need to be in place.  Good rules protect scouts and scouters.  When you make the rules impossible to follow, don't be surprised when it does further damage to the program.

I guess I should stop delaying buying that umbrella policy since BSA is setting us up as the Fall Guy for any issues.  One of our ASMs already talked to me about this.

Good grief, I just want to work with a fun program that safely helps boys develop skills for adulthood.

[RememberSchiff]

Where was the scout's buddy? 

Send him away to get his buddy, continue to read your book in peace.

[Chris1]

Theoretically the boy should always be with a buddy. However it could be the case where the Scout had a buddy from a unit in a nearby campsite to walk back from merit badge classes. You could be okay if your site was in Clearview of other camps with youth or adults. Sometimes things just happen but we try to do our best.