Breaking Point

[Gwaihir]

If BSA becomes the same as Scouting in the UK, I'm out.  That's my breaking point.  

[Eagle94-A1]

Still do not know the overall breaking point, but now know my sons' breaking point regarding the troop: becoming a "linked troop." They do not want to do anything with girls. They want their own time to be with the guys.. CO currently says separate troops, but they will revisit the issue if there are problems with getting a girls' troop set up. And we got a few Scouters and parents who do want to be "linked" from the get go. I have a felling that we will become "linked" within the next 18 months.

As to why I use quotation marks regarding "linked," EVERYONE I have talked to says that if they become "linked troops" they will be so on paper only. They will operate as a coed troop with gender-based patrols.

As for other troops and COS,  only 1 states they will not form a girls' troop. Other troops in the area want to remain male only, but they are trying to reform their packs, which will be coed. So I do not think male only troops will last.

 

 

 

[ParaSloth]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As to why I use quotation marks regarding "linked," EVERYONE I have talked to says that if they become "linked troops" they will be so on paper only. They will operate as a coed troop with gender-based patrols.

So much for "Trustworthy" on behalf of the members not following the guidelines.  Same will be true - maybe moreso - in the Cubs as Pack Leaders struggle to obtain den leaders to lead the girl dens (not to mention the mandatory women leaders that have to be present at meetings and campouts).  They will put the dens together and have them separate on paper only. 

The frustration is that I believe this is where National wants to be (fully co-ed), and they are not being honest with themself or the membership by enacting this "step", waiting for it to fail, then changing policy to where they wanted it to be in the first place.

 

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

 

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

6 hours ago, ParaSloth said:

So much for "Trustworthy" on behalf of the members not following the guidelines.  Same will be true - maybe moreso - in the Cubs as Pack Leaders struggle to obtain den leaders to lead the girl dens (not to mention the mandatory women leaders that have to be present at meetings and campouts).  They will put the dens together and have them separate on paper only. 

The frustration is that I believe this is where National wants to be (fully co-ed), and they are not being honest with themself or the membership by enacting this "step", waiting for it to fail, then changing policy to where they wanted it to be in the first place.

Sadly, TRUSTWORTHY on behalf of some pros has been long gone. I know. I worked with some professionals, who did some un-Scoutlike things. Some of them got promoted to regional and national staff. And let's face it, National has not been very TRUSTWORTHY of late. Maybe I am getting cynical with my old age, but I doubt it.

[Pint]

On 5/26/2018 at 9:04 PM, Gwaihir said:

If BSA becomes the same as Scouting in the UK, I'm out.  That's my breaking point.  

As a UK Scouter, care to elaborate?

[Peter1919]

On 5/26/2018 at 9:04 PM, Gwaihir said:

If BSA becomes the same as Scouting in the UK, I'm out.  That's my breaking point.  

Why? Do you actually have any experience of Scouting in the UK? I am a UK Scouter and I think we run excellent Scouting, its different to BSA, with a lot less emphasis on ranks and advancement but its still Scouting.

[Cambridgeskip]

22 minutes ago, Peter1919 said:

Why? Do you actually have any experience of Scouting in the UK? I am a UK Scouter and I think we run excellent Scouting, its different to BSA, with a lot less emphasis on ranks and advancement but its still Scouting.

Do be fare he elaborated on this when prompted elsewhere, can't remember if it was on this thread or another. Click on his username and you'll be able to track it down 

[perdidochas]

On 5/20/2018 at 7:43 AM, David CO said:

That is exactly what I don't want. Scouting is a game for boys.

In the early days of Scouting, leaders could earn Eagle. 

[perdidochas]

On 5/20/2018 at 2:12 PM, David CO said:

This is where I disagree with you, Barry.

 

So you're saying you don't enjoy being a scout leader, and you aren't a better man for being one? 

I learned a lot as an Assistant Scout master.  I had never backpacked before, for example. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by perdidochas

[David CO]

3 hours ago, perdidochas said:

So you're saying you don't enjoy being a scout leader, and you aren't a better man for being one? 

I learned a lot as an Assistant Scout master.  I had never backpacked before, for example. 

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).

[Buggie]

41 minutes ago, David CO said:

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).

Mine where too!  They weren't any good, but they were pretty well formed...

[NJCubScouter]

39 minutes ago, David CO said:

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).

I think being a leader does have a positive effect on most people.  Most people can always improve their abilities to deal with other people, to assess situations and respond, to deal with difficult situations and difficult people, etc.  Work and professional life provides some experience in doing so, but volunteering and working with kids provides a different kind of experience.  Additionally, most of us here are not trained as teachers, so we learn how to pass along our knowledge and experience to young people only through practice in doing so.  I also agree with what someone, I think it was EagleDad, said earlier: I think being a Scout leader has made me a better parent as well.  It is not so much a matter of "character" and "Scout skills" as some of the less tangible things that I mention above.

[perdidochas]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

My character and camping skills were already pretty well formed before I became a scoutmaster (at age 25).

Is it just a job, and you dislike doing it?

[David CO]

6 hours ago, perdidochas said:

Is it just a job, and you dislike doing it?

I enjoy watching the youngest grandkids playing in the sandbox. I will sometimes even come down to their level, to play in the sand with them and help them build their sandcastles. But let's be clear about this. I don't really get a kick out of playing with sand. I outgrew that about a half a century ago. I just like to spend some time with the grandkids.

I feel the same way about scouting. I enjoy watching the boys play their game. I give my time to support them and help make them successful. It is their game, not mine. I outgrew the game with a purpose many, many years ago.

 

[blw2]

davidco, I think that is a very interesting perspective....good point.

It does seem like it's easy for so many adults to get caught up in 'playing the game'.  I'll admit that in some ways I did, but I think I was always aware of what I was doing and kept it tempered down....usually.  I think that many adults probably aren't so self-aware about it though.  While I wasn't actually doing work on the "requirements", I do enjoy this stuff and sort of feel like what we are often doing is similar to auditing a college course.  I've seen some take it to an extreme...forming the "adult patrol", and all of that....  I see this as one of the big reasons that it is all so common to have too many adults envolved.

I couldn't agree more with you about doing things like playing in the sand.... (or having a tea party with my nieces, etc...) so it's easy to keep that separation with things like that....but with scouting, it's like.... hey I like to camp, I like to hike, i like to canoe, i like i like i like....count me in!  Easy to get lost in it.