Breaking Point

[RememberSchiff]

@Zebra132 welcome to scouter.com

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum.

38 minutes ago, Zebra132 said:

I know of a youth that has had his membership revoked and placed on the permanently ineligible list for one-on-one contact with a youth.

This is beyond stupid. I can only hope this is an isolated incident.

I had a scout turn 18 on a campout and he asked if had to move out of his tent that night. I asked him if he felt any different than the day before, he said no, I told him there's your answer.

[NJCubScouter]

2 hours ago, MattR said:

I had a scout turn 18 on a campout and he asked if had to move out of his tent that night. I asked him if he felt any different than the day before, he said no, I told him there's your answer.

That may be the common-sense answer, but I don't think its the BSA answer.

[carrico1101]

BSA, or "Scouts, BSA", have lost their way. I was a Scoutmaster for 10 years, and a District Executive. I left in 2013 because I saw the writing and I was right. I no longer support the scouting movement. That's just my preference.

[HashTagScouts]

13 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

My concern is the statement that what we used to refer to as "tweeners" (18-20-year-olds) are now registered as adults and were originally told they were doing it for the background check. This mostly impacted Venturing and Sea Scouting. A line has been added that now states that this age group of "adult participants" must follow all YPT rules. This brings about two big issues: a Crew president or Ship boatswain that is 18+ cannot directly contact any unit member that is under 18 using the media in which the "youth" (usually texting or some other app) AND they will be required to break off contact with friends that are under 18 that are registered in Scouting until those friends reach 18. I know of a youth that has had his membership revoked and placed on the permanently ineligible list for one-on-one contact with a youth. This could really impact our "older programs" as I don't know many young people that will give up their friends for Scouting. This entire situation seems a little heavy-handed since we treat these young people as a collective unit and expect them to run themselves.

Welcome to the forum.

 

I fear the impacts it has on Venturing and Sea Scouts. I also fear the impact it has on OA as well, as we define “youth” in the OA as under 21, and I find it very common in the lodge and section level that some officers are 18+ while others are not. Not being able to have a private conversation with your own leadership group is just a strange concept.

[Zebra132]

My entire family was active in OA for three generations. I’m seeing participation drop in our Lodge because if you aren’t a politician or a competitor, there’s nothing there for you. I’m afraid BSA is headed down the drain. 

[Zebra132]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:57 PM, walk in the woods said:

The good news is anybody who disagrees with your interpretation of the rules can report it (anonymously?) to the new 1800 number and get an independent third interpretation!

I’ve called that number before. I was told 14-17-year-olds could have sex away from Scouting and it wasn’t any of the BSA’s interest. I was told by Council this age group having sex at Camp was not a YPT concern. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Zebra132

[RememberSchiff]

6 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

I’ve called that number before. I was told 14-17-year-olds could have sex away from Scouting and it wasn’t any of the BSA’s interest. I was told by Council this age group having sex at Camp was not a YPT concern. 

Refer them to the Guide to Safe Scouting. (pages 1-3)

I. Youth Protection and Adult Leadership

Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse

The BSA has adopted the following policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by these safeguards. Parents and youth are strongly encouraged to use these safeguards outside the Scouting program. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities.

...

Program Requirements

...

Inappropriate public displays of affection are prohibited.

Sexual activity is prohibited.

[Zebra132]

@RememberSchiff, that fell on deaf ears (and eyes). However, one couple was talked to and the female was sent home! It’s my understanding she was the younger of the two. The young man stayed. They were in his tent! He had a family member (true adult) as the Program Director. 

[perdidochas]

23 hours ago, MattR said:

Welcome to the forum.

This is beyond stupid. I can only hope this is an isolated incident.

I had a scout turn 18 on a campout and he asked if had to move out of his tent that night. I asked him if he felt any different than the day before, he said no, I told him there's your answer.

I disagree.  Scout should have moved out based on YPT.  In my sons' troop, that wasn't a problem, as most of the older scouts tented (or hammocked) alone anyway. 

[perdidochas]

21 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

That may be the common-sense answer, but I don't think its the BSA answer.

I disagree totally with the answer. Rules are rules.  If you asked a 25 year old (or even a 45 year old), many would say they don't feel any differently than they did when they turned 18.  Not a common sense answer at all. 

[MattR]

48 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

I disagree totally with the answer. Rules are rules. 

We may have to agree to disagree. I let scouts have water fights with squirt guns and they can climb on rocks higher than their waist. Certainly I took a risks with things like this and 18 year old scouts tenting with 17 year old scouts. But I'm okay with that. To me, the chance at having fun was worth more than the possibility that something bad was going to happen. You obviously see this differently and I'm okay with that as well.

[NJCubScouter]

12 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

I was told by Council this age group having sex at Camp was not a YPT concern. 

It boggles my mind that anyone associated with Scouting would say that.

[qwazse]

3 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

@RememberSchiff, that fell on deaf ears (and eyes). However, one couple was talked to and the female was sent home! It’s my understanding she was the younger of the two. The young man stayed. They were in his tent! He had a family member (true adult) as the Program Director. 

@Zebra132, welcome to the forums. It sounds like you had a nepotism problem on top of a YPT violation.

Was the YPT violation a unit problem? Or a camp staff problem?

In my crew, I was fairly blunt and laid out this policy in both a secular and sacred terms:

• Sacred: I know each of your religions, abide by them.
• Secular: FDMA: Fornication dampens morale. Abstain.

I guess I was fortunate enough to deal with "non-controversial" youth in that area.

When adults don't have your back when it comes to discipline, that definitely is a breaking point.

 

[Zebra132]

@qwazse, this was a staff issue. When the second incident happened the next week, the staff didn’t even bother to report to head staff.