Breaking Point

[Eagle1993]

9 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 At least it isn't as bad as the new CS handbooks. Unless someone screwed up the document released yesterday. The doucment published yesterday shows the Cub Scout Ranks Diamond has been reordered. Bobcat is in the Tiger/Webelos Spot, Tiger is in teh Wolf spot, and Wolf is in the Bobcat spot.  

My understanding is that the handbook is correct but the FAQ that went out about Family Scouting was wrong.  I’ve seen screen shots of both.  

[HashTagScouts]

22 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Or do MBCs get a pass under the personal-conference clause:

So, if it's a "meeting" with a MBC then two over 21 registered adults are required.  But, if it's a personal conference then you only need someone with "knowledge" of why the meeting is happening and be "in view of other adults and/or youth."  The latter would suggest a MBC could counsel a scout at the local library as long as the librarian knows why you're there and can see you both.

This is why I love BSA communications so much  They list out examples under the other two bullets to give context, but for the first one, they leave it entirely for the reader to interpret!

[NJCubScouter]

23 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

This is why I love BSA communications so much  They list out examples under the other two bullets to give context, but for the first one, they leave it entirely for the reader to interpret!

And I think it's getting worse.  I am still irritated about them taking a clearly-worded policy on use of alcohol at Scouting events and turning it into a mostly-meaningless mishmash - and at the same time they left the poorly-worded policy on smoking as is.

[David CO]

Does the rule only apply to meetings with youth members, or does it also apply to meetings with adult leaders under age 21?  Do we need to have 2 adult leaders over 21 when meeting with an 18 year old ASM?  Do we need to have an adult female leader over age 21 when we meet with a female ASM under age 21?

[HashTagScouts]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

Does the rule only apply to meetings with youth members, or does it also apply to meetings with adult leaders under age 21?  Do we need to have 2 adult leaders over 21 when meeting with an 18 year old ASM?  Do we need to have an adult female leader over age 21 when we meet with a female ASM under age 21?

Don't you feel like someone should be putting together a grid by this point? (*AHEM* National, anyone paying attention?)

Scenario	Does age 21 requirement apply (YES/NO)

[Eagle94-A1]

8 minutes ago, David CO said:

Does the rule only apply to meetings with youth members, or does it also apply to meetings with adult leaders under age 21?  Do we need to have 2 adult leaders over 21 when meeting with an 18 year old ASM?  Do we need to have an adult female leader over age 21 when we meet with a female ASM under age 21?

 

DON"T GO THERE!

I'll give you one situation that will throw you. Will the 20 year male ASM need to have a male ASM 21+ when he meets with the 21y.o. female ASM who is his fiance/wife? Yes, I saw that happen once. Couple met as Venturers, and followed Venturing YP when in Venturing environment. But both were registered with a troop as well.

[walk in the woods]

The good news is anybody who disagrees with your interpretation of the rules can report it (anonymously?) to the new 1800 number and get an independent third interpretation!

[NJCubScouter]

23 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Don't you feel like someone should be putting together a grid by this point? (*AHEM* National, anyone paying attention?)

I think I have actually seen a grid for this in the past - but of course it would be out-of-date now.  It was when they decided that Venturing crew members 18-20 were no longer "youth" and were not "adult leaders" but were now considered "adult participants," which resulted in there being (I think) 6 different categories of people for YP purposes.

[MattR]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I'm not watching this subject all that close since I'm out of the program now, but you guys are painting a scary picture that would not have worked well in our troop. The program is starting to look more like a cross between Webelos III and YMCA.

Well, isn't this kind of like squirt guns? People will ignore it. It's sad that it's gotten to this point, though. Two can play this game. I mean, if I camp at the trail head then I'm "there."

Did you recently walk away? If you'd like to share, is this from frustration or it's just time (i.e., Mrs EagleDad said so)?

 

[Oldscout448]

19 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

DON"T GO THERE!

I'll give you one situation that will throw you. Will the 20 year male ASM need to have a male ASM 21+ when he meets with the 21y.o. female ASM who is his fiance/wife? Yes, I saw that happen once. Couple met as Venturers, and followed Venturing YP when in Venturing environment. But both were registered with a troop as well.

In our case it was a 21 year old male and a just turned 20 year old female  in our Explorer post who got married.   We were still trying to figure out what the policy was when she had her 21st birthday.    

Edited June 14, 2018 by Oldscout448

[MattR]

19 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

In our case it was a 21 year old male and a just turned 20 year old female  in our Explorer post who got married.   We were still trying to figure out what the policy was when she had her 21st birthday.    

Birthday cake.

[NJCubScouter]

3 hours ago, MattR said:

Birthday cake.

And the champagne that she was not legally permitted to drink at her wedding.

[carrico1101]

My breaking point came in 2013. I was the new DE and ready and willing to make our council better and, starting that year to present, the BSA has taken the wind out of my sails. I immediately resigned as DE, then soon after left scouting all together. I want to remember BSA the way it was, not what it has become. That is just me.

[Oldscout448]

On 6/14/2018 at 1:18 PM, NJCubScouter said:

And the champagne that she was not legally permitted to drink at her wedding.

ah, but back in the dark ages the drinking age was 18 in Maryland

Come to think of it maybe that is why so many of us got married so young  😁

Edited June 17, 2018 by Oldscout448

[Zebra132]

My concern is the statement that what we used to refer to as "tweeners" (18-20-year-olds) are now registered as adults and were originally told they were doing it for the background check. This mostly impacted Venturing and Sea Scouting. A line has been added that now states that this age group of "adult participants" must follow all YPT rules. This brings about two big issues: a Crew president or Ship boatswain that is 18+ cannot directly contact any unit member that is under 18 using the media in which the "youth" (usually texting or some other app) AND they will be required to break off contact with friends that are under 18 that are registered in Scouting until those friends reach 18. I know of a youth that has had his membership revoked and placed on the permanently ineligible list for one-on-one contact with a youth. This could really impact our "older programs" as I don't know many young people that will give up their friends for Scouting. This entire situation seems a little heavy-handed since we treat these young people as a collective unit and expect them to run themselves.