Mike Rowe: Death of Boy Scouts?

[Cubmaster Pete]

43 minutes ago, FireStone said:

His take on safe spaces is interesting. I'm not so sure that many people would equate Scouting with safe spaces. Quite the opposite. We go on hikes in the woods with wild animals and deadly bugs around. We shoot guns, bow & arrows, and slingshots. We use knives. We make fires. We play rough, yell loudly, get dirty, and promote bravery.

I think there are too many troops that do not do this, and that's the biggest problem.

[Eagle1993]

Rowe is right in some ways.  G2SS should be written to actually prevent serious injuries and not to lower insurance rates. 

My 9 YO son went to a non BSA camp and used power tools.  He went on a raft that he and other kids built... on a river.  They were in life vests but I’m sure not all would pass the BSA swim test  I’m sure it was overloaded, it broke they all fell in and they had a blast.  Adults were present and had the situation under control.  He probably got a few bumps and bruises but no issues. 

He asked if we can do this with our Pack...

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Oldscout448 said:

that sounds risky!    WE used a sturdy branch.  

But a wobbly branch will give you more of a springboard effect on lift-off. Springiness = velocity = big splashes.

[ScouterNorth]

 

"If the Boy Scouts want to attract a new generation of members, they’ll need to stand for something more than inclusion. "

Standing for something by definition means you are going to leave someone out.  If you include everything, then you stand for nothing.

Over the years I've noticed that standards of all kinds have slowly changed.  Not so much the standards themselves, but what are actually considered to be standards.  The Personal Fitness badge (Scouts Canada) is a great example.  One requirement involved six events (pushups, shuttle run, situps, standing long jump, 50m sprint, 1600-2400m endurance run) and there were firm targets to meet.  I'll call this an "group objective standard".

Then it moved to "do your best" in the six events.  This is a subjective standard, but everyone still had to complete the same events.  I'll call this a "group subjective standard".

Now with the revamped program, Scouts are permitted to formulate their own requirements for the Personal Fitness badge.  This means that one Scout may do/perform/accomplish far less or far more than other Scouts yet still wear the same badge.   I would call this an "individual subjective standard", but in reality it is "no standard at all".

One can also note that the Personal Fitness badge has also steadily become more and more inclusive and now is so inclusive that anyone who bothers to scratch together a few requirements can have it even if their physical fitness is bordering on theoretical.

 

In terms of safety, while I've definitely noticed thicker red tape on the admin side, I've also noticed that a big part of the "safety push" has come from the parents who, for the most part, have never spent any real time in the outdoors and put "slight discomfort from being wet and cold" on the same level as "bleeding out in the forest somewhere".  

It's now "don't do that because someone might get hurt" whereas it used to be "go ahead and do that until someone gets hurt". The latter always let me as a kid have more fun, do more things and learn a thing or two about evaluating risk.

[David CO]

Post was self-deleted by David CO for taking a joke too far.

Edited May 18, 2018 by David CO

[Oldscout448]

18 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Rowe is right in some ways.  G2SS should be written to actually prevent serious injuries and not to lower insurance rates. 

My 9 YO son went to a non BSA camp and used power tools.  He went on a raft that he and other kids built... on a river.  They were in life vests but I’m sure not all would pass the BSA swim test  I’m sure it was overloaded, it broke they all fell in and they had a blast.  Adults were present and had the situation under control.  He probably got a few bumps and bruises but no issues. 

He asked if we can do this with our Pack...

what is this G2SS you speak of?

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, FireStone said:

His take on safe spaces is interesting. I'm not so sure that many people would equate Scouting with safe spaces. Quite the opposite. We go on hikes in the woods with wild animals and deadly bugs around. We shoot guns, bow & arrows, and slingshots. We use knives. We make fires. We play rough, yell loudly, get dirty, and promote bravery. We aim to instill confidence, leadership, character, and strength in our scouts. And we reward hard work with awards and ranks that take a long time to earn. 

I love that about us. And I think it positions us in stark contrast to the safe space movement.

But I also don't think we're in a great position to lead the charge against that movement. Maybe this isn't exactly the bravest of positions to take, but I feel like we've stuck our necks out plenty lately. Let's be brave, but not reckless. Give us a few years and maybe we can be that kind of organization that Mike suggests. 

Let's get our own house cleaned up and get this new co-ed thing up and running. Then maybe we can talk about leading that charge, and enjoy the help from our new female members in doing so, as Mike also suggested: 

 

We have shooting sports- but only in a controlled sterile range environment. Don't dare point a Nerf gun, or a paintball gun, anywhere in the direction of another scout! And don't talk about using those guns and bows for hunting, no way! Not permit by the GTSS. It wasn't always that way, common sense had a place. Sadly, Mike is correct it is lacking today.

[Chisos]

57 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

We have shooting sports- but only in a controlled sterile range environment. Don't dare point a Nerf gun, or a paintball gun, anywhere in the direction of another scout! And don't talk about using those guns and bows for hunting, no way! Not permit by the GTSS. It wasn't always that way, common sense had a place. Sadly, Mike is correct it is lacking today.

Exactly.  When paintball is perfectly fine for the church youth group but banned by the Boy Scouts, we have a problem.

[HashTagScouts]

10 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

We have shooting sports- but only in a controlled sterile range environment. Don't dare point a Nerf gun, or a paintball gun, anywhere in the direction of another scout! And don't talk about using those guns and bows for hunting, no way! Not permit by the GTSS. It wasn't always that way, common sense had a place. Sadly, Mike is correct it is lacking today.

I'll go even further. Yes, hiking can be an,asventure- but that requires getting off the well marked trails of your local/state/national park. And if you go entirely off what the BSA program requires, that is one (1!) 5 mile hike their entire time as a Boy Scout. I am a hiking MB counselor, and I can tell you 90% of the Scouts I talk to about getting out and working on that badge point out they don't have to, they did their 5 mile hike, thank you. Of the other 10%, about 2/3 of them will do a couple of the hikes, but will never complete the badge. 

[Eagle94-A1]

18 minutes ago, Chisos said:

Exactly.  When paintball is perfectly fine for the church youth group but banned by the Boy Scouts, we have a problem.

 

Heck, my kid's homeschool group did it for school as a team building exercise. And when I worked camp staff in the UK, the service crew did laser tag as a team building exercise.

[Chisos]

5 hours ago, perdidochas said:

I agree with the one Citizenship MB. I would also combine Personal Management and Family Life into "Personal and Family Management."  I would also keep Enviro Science (and kill Sustainability, which is an expansion of the worst parts of enviro science), but add more outdoor activity to it.  I agree with Wilderness Survival addition.  Maybe with the Swimming or Hiking or Cycling, make it a "pick 2."  I would also put Nature MB back as an Eagle required badge.  (with maybe an option for Wildlife Management). 

I've never quite got the Swimming/Hiking/Cycling choice.  Swimming just seems so much easier than either of the other two...maybe require swimming for everyone, then a choice of Cycling, Hiking, or (Lifesaving + Mile Swim).

[desertrat77]

Mike Rowe mentioned the epic British Bulldog battles at his troop meetings....

Troop 190 at Elmendorf AFB Alaska, we played BB as well.  But outside and tackle, vice indoor and lift.  Same result though, a heck of a lot of fun.

One my troops in Arizona raised Steal the Bacon (always indoors) to a form of warfare.  Full contact!

We scouts loved these games.  Even the non-athletic kids joined in and did the best they could. [Edit:  reflecting...I can't recall a single scout that asked not to play.] Sure, scouts got hurt, but not badly.  If you just got knocked flat on your back, or received a hip check that sent you bouncing off the wall of the scout hut, no problem.  Dust off that uniform, straighten your neckerchief, smile and acknowledge the razzing the other scouts were giving you, and GET BACK IN THE GAME.

Sure, the games were important.  But it turns out, the games provided more than recreation.  Life lessons.

Still...doggone those were fun times.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by desertrat77

[Saltface]

Heck, when I was a Scout, my brother broke his leg playing a certain game with a football (whose name we can’t say these days). He had to sit out until he healed. Fortunately, we had enough people to play without him. 

[ianwilkins]

3 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Mike Rowe mentioned the epic British Bulldog battles at his troop meetings....

Nice to see what we Brits have exported around the world.  Our Explorers seem to think it's banned, so they play French Poodle, in which everything is exactly the same as British Bulldog but the name.

 

[David CO]

5 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

Nice to see what we Brits have exported around the world.  Our Explorers seem to think it's banned, so they play French Poodle, in which everything is exactly the same as British Bulldog but the name.

 

We called it Hill Dill. 

Thank you very much. We enjoyed it.