National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

[David CO]

If this was a different thread, on a different topic, I might tend to agree with some of the statements that I have read here about retention. I cannot agree with them in the context of this thread and this topic.

When scouting loses a large number of boys, en masse, because a Chartering Organization pulls out of scouting, it is not the fault of unit scouters.

It was not a failure of the unit scouters when a Catholic diocese dropped out, it is not a failure of the unit scouters that LDS is dropping out, and it will not be a failure of the unit scouters when the next big group drops out.  

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by David CO

[walk in the woods]

17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

In my neck of the woods, FOS is down. Heck my district goal this year is the same as it was when I was a DE 19 years ago, and we have not met it yet! My district committee is down to 4 active people, and that includes the DE. Folks are not supporting the changes over the years, and it is hurting.

Same in my area.  Council and District FOS is behind last year and only at 60% of goal as of the end of April.

[Saltface]

18 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

In my neck of the woods, FOS is down. Heck my district goal this year is the same as it was when I was a DE 19 years ago, and we have not met it yet! My district committee is down to 4 active people, and that includes the DE. Folks are not supporting the changes over the years, and it is hurting.

From what I've seen, our FOS campaign has been entirely crippled over the last year (and no one seems to care). On the other hand, our district committee is almost fully staffed after having been created about three months ago when my entire council was separated out into LDS and community districts. Rumor has it that our Scout Executive tendered his resignation two days ago (again, just a rumor). That would be understandable, I wouldn't want to deal with all the headaches of losing 80% of your units. These are truly interesting times.

[Eagle94-A1]

6 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Rumor has it that our Scout Executive tendered his resignation two days ago (again, just a rumor). That would be understandable, I wouldn't want to deal with all the headaches of losing 80% of your units. These are truly interesting times.

Having been a pro and dealing with membership stats, I feel for all the pros in heavy LDS districts and councils. Doesn't matter that this is not their fault, they will be held accountable for the loss from the powers that be, it wil affect their abilities to transfer and get priomoted, etc.

[Tampa Turtle]

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Having been a pro and dealing with membership stats, I feel for all the pros in heavy LDS districts and councils. Doesn't matter that this is not their fault, they will be held accountable for the loss from the powers that be, it wil affect their abilities to transfer and get priomoted, etc.

Not fair. 

[Saltface]

19 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Having been a pro and dealing with membership stats, I feel for all the pros in heavy LDS districts and councils. Doesn't matter that this is not their fault, they will be held accountable for the loss from the powers that be, it wil affect their abilities to transfer and get priomoted, etc.

That's pretty rough.

[David CO]

I would imagine that many of the scout execs in LDS heavy districts and councils might happen to also be members of that religion. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them leave voluntarily when the LDS unit charters expire. I also wouldn't be surprised if the LDS leadership helps them to find new employment. 

If LDS is starting their own youth program, won't some new jobs be created as the old BSA positions are eliminated?

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by David CO

[JoeBob]

Hey @FireStone , is there a reason that you disagree with my last 2 posts on the LDS withdrawal?  It's entirely within your rights to downvote from the shadows, but would you mind sharing your rationale? 

Thank you.

Edited May 11, 2018 by RememberSchiff
added @ to notify Firestone

[Eagle94-A1]

18 minutes ago, David CO said:

I would imagine that many of the scout execs in LDS heavy districts and councils might happen to also be members of that religion. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them leave voluntarily when the LDS unit charters expire. I also wouldn't be surprised if the LDS leadership helps them to find new employment. 

If LDS is starting their own youth program, won't some new jobs be created as the old BSA positions are eliminated?

 

 

I would like to think the LDS Church will help their members who are pros  find new jobs. Heck you BYU has a minor for their business majors, and as masters in nonprofit management, whihc I was told was designed to prepare folks to be DEs originally.

[NJCubScouter]

39 minutes ago, David CO said:

If LDS is starting their own youth program, won't some new jobs be created as the old BSA positions are eliminated?

Sounds logical.

[T2Eagle]

48 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Sounds logical.

The same logic probably will apply to camp closures/sales/transfers.  The LDS announcement specifically mentioned (IIRC) there being an outdoor component to their new program, so presumably they'll need some camps to carry out that program.

When some of the mountain-west councils need to start closing camps, things could get interesting/messy where donated land, endowments, and trusts were tied to continuing scouting as a condition to ongoing ownership by the local council.

[Saltface]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

I would imagine that many of the scout execs in LDS heavy districts and councils might happen to also be members of that religion. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them leave voluntarily when the LDS unit charters expire. I also wouldn't be surprised if the LDS leadership helps them to find new employment. 

If LDS is starting their own youth program, won't some new jobs be created as the old BSA positions are eliminated?

 

 

There are more than a few Mormon professional scouters in my council and their jobs will probably be eliminated by 2020. The LDS church doesn't really have paid clergy, so no new jobs will be opening up (maybe one or two at headquarters). We do have a good employment-finding and job skills program. 

46 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

The same logic probably will apply to camp closures/sales/transfers.  The LDS announcement specifically mentioned (IIRC) there being an outdoor component to their new program, so presumably they'll need some camps to carry out that program.

When some of the mountain-west councils need to start closing camps, things could get interesting/messy where donated land, endowments, and trusts were tied to continuing scouting as a condition to ongoing ownership by the local council.

There will undoubtedly be an outdoor component to the new program. The female youth of the Church already have their own camps but there will probably be some new properties purchased/donated. Or we'll just camp on public lands like we frequently do.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Saltface

[FireStone]

22 hours ago, JoeBob said:

Hey @FireStone , is there a reason that you disagree with my last 2 posts on the LDS withdrawal?  It's entirely within your rights to downvote from the shadows, but would you mind sharing your rationale? 

Thank you.

Progressives don't "hate what the BSA stood for." I'm what you might call a "progressive", and I love the BSA, always have, always will. 

I also don't agree that "we've sacrificed the quality of Eagle, which used to be the standard for Excellence." I think it still is a standard of excellence.

And last I checked, duty to god was still part of the program at all levels, so your idea that "we've given up on God", I'm in strong disagreement with that as well. 

Not much else to say, I just find those comments of yours extremely disagreeable. 

[Eagledad]

29 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Progressives don't "hate what the BSA stood for." I'm what you might call a "progressive", and I love the BSA, always have, always will. 

I also don't agree that "we've sacrificed the quality of Eagle, which used to be the standard for Excellence." I think it still is a standard of excellence.

And last I checked, duty to god was still part of the program at all levels, so your idea that "we've given up on God", I'm in strong disagreement with that as well. 

Not much else to say, I just find those comments of yours extremely disagreeable. 

The program two years ago was just boys. Gays six years ago. Every scouting program that changes to girls eventually made god optional. So we will see on the God part. I think many of the Eagle alums will struggle that it’s holds the same respect. I personally believe it’s starting all over with girls now. 

Barry

[ayates]

On 5/9/2018 at 4:36 PM, walk in the woods said:

Anybody have a feel for the impact on Scouts Canada?

Overall, including Beavers (ages 5-7), ~6% of the kids in Scouts Canada are in LDS groups. The impact to the sections in which the LDS have groups is as follows:

 

Allan.