National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

[Eagledad]

42 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

What about the girls who want a chance to join a "traditional conservative outdoor youth organization"?   BSA, even now,  fits that definition better than other options.

Well first, I believe boys at this age need a program for boys. We've had many discussions on that subject, but you can certainly start another. I just don't feel the boys program should be sacrificed simply to raise overall numbers. 

Second, the infusion of adults without the youth scouting experience will naturally dilute the patrol method part of the program to the point that it won't be recognizable in 10 years (10 years is roughly two generations of scouts). That is because after working with dozens of units over the years, I don't believe patrol method can be implemented correctly without some patrol method experience.

Barry

Edited May 17, 2018 by Eagledad

[Treflienne]

16 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Second, the infusion of adults without the youth scouting experience will naturally dilute the patrol method part of the program to the point that it won't be recognizable in 10 years (10 years is roughly two generations of scouts). That is because after working with dozens of units over the years, I don't believe patrol method can be implemented correctly without some patrol method experience.

Well, once upon a time, long long ago,  Girl Scouts and Girl Guides did use the patrol system.   Some of us remember it and value it.   (Of course, the troop that I was in that implemented it best had two leaders who had both grown up in the Girl Guides (UK), not in GSUSA.)

Edited May 17, 2018 by Treflienne
fixed a typo.

[Saltface]

50 minutes ago, gblotter said:

That was the beauty of LDS Scouting. There was no firewall with church teachings. Sunday School lessons flowed seamlessly into Scoutmaster minutes and campfire programs.

In my experience with non-LDS Scouters, any mention of Duty To God would inevitably cause awkward silence and staring at the floor - some even bristled with resentment. I was considered out of line for even raising such a personal topic. No such awkwardness existed in LDS Scouting.

A quote I mentioned elsewhere ...

“There is no religious side to the Movement. The whole of it is based on religion, that is, on the realization and service of God.” Lord Robert Baden-Powell, November 1920

...and Scoutmaster Minutes can dispense with the platitudes and instead throw a straight doctrinal punch!

"Don’t be too critical of the barrier, it’s the only thing that’s keeping you from being devoured." -Von G. Keech

"Brethren, stand close together and lift where you stand." -Dieter F. Uchtdorf

"Beware of the evil behind the smiling eyes." -Neil L. Andersen

 

[David CO]

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I'd welcome us to focus on the 95% we have in common.  I think that would be wonderful.  

I am told that people share about 95% percent of their DNA with lower life forms. A 5% difference may not seem like so much, mathematically, but 5% can make all the difference in the world.

[ParkMan]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

I am told that people share about 95% percent of their DNA with lower life forms. A 5% difference may not seem like so much, mathematically, but 5% can make all the difference in the world.

I'm just trying to figure out how to build a bridge here.

[David CO]

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I'm curious to learn what the Catholic teaching is on homosexuality?

Barry

Hi Barry,

I would be happy to answer any questions you might wish to pose to me. I am fully trained to teach Catholic catechism. I understand, however, that you might feel that I am somewhat biased (conservative), and that you might prefer to ask someone else. No offense will be taken if you don't take me up on my offer.

David

[HashTagScouts]

7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I'm curious to learn what the Catholic teaching is on homosexuality?

Barry

In a nutshell= love the sinner, not the sin. We are as God created us- however, that does not mean that someone who is homosexual should act upon their sexual desires. The Church says any sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin, and a marriage is only between a man and a woman.  As Papa Francesco says, "who am I to judge?"... that job belongs to only one, God.

 

And yes, some Dioceses' pulled support of their parishes being CO'' of BSA units with the change in stance of the BSA toward gay adult leaders, and encouaged their parishes to charter Trail Life instead.  There are now Trail Life Catholic religious award programs, and they are different than those used for the BSA.

[David CO]

24 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

 As Papa Francesco says, "who am I to judge?"... that job belongs to only one, God.

I would be reluctant to equate off-the-cuff remarks with Catholic catechism.

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven."

The Pope is well aware of his authority.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by David CO

[David CO]

The Catholic Church has an extensive system of laws (Canon Law) and courts (tribunals). Every year, the tribunals hears thousands of cases and appeals. The Church has canon lawyers, who are specially educated and trained to present or defend cases before the tribunals.

At the parish level, many parishes have standing grievance committees. A grievance committee acts much like a small claims court. A grievance committee will hear the complaints that don't rise to the level of a tribunal hearing. Decisions of a grievance committee can be appealed to the tribunals.

At various times, I have been a witness/complainant/respondent before the grievance committees and tribunal hearings. So I can't quite agree that the Catholic Church leaves all judging to God.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by David CO

[HashTagScouts]

20 minutes ago, David CO said:

The Catholic Church has an extensive system of laws (Canon Law) and courts (tribunals). Every year, the tribunals hears thousands of cases and appeals. The Church has canon lawyers, who are specially educated and trained to present or defend cases before the tribunals.

At the parish level, many parishes have standing grievance committees. A grievance committee acts much like a small claims court. A grievance committee will hear the complaints that don't rise to the level of a tribunal hearing. Decisions of a grievance committee can be appealed to the tribunals.

At various times, I have been a witness/complainant/defendant before the grievance committees and tribunal hearings. So I can't quite agree that the Catholic Church leaves all judging to God.

 

It matters of dispute, you are correct. I am very familiar with the Cathechism. Francis in no way contradicted the authority he has as primary bishop, he simply saw that mercy and kindness is more to the mission of Christ than hate and scourn. The Catholic church is clear that homosexual acts are not acceptable to God, but then neither is premarital sex, adultery, etc. I know plenty of Christians that have regularly engaged in those acts as well.

[David CO]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:24 AM, Cambridgeskip said:

 

I look back on my teenage years, the early to mid 90s, and the idea that anyone could have come out as openly gay and not been subjected to a torent of abuse and all kinds of difficulty is ludicrous. It just wouldn't have happened.

 

The United States is a big country. Our experiences are not all the same. I don't think my town's experiences were the same as those on the East and West coast, and certainly not like you experienced on your side of the pond.

It sounds like the people where you live have gone through a much greater shift in attitudes that we have in my midwestern U.S.A. town. We started out a lot more tolerant than what you have just described, and we ended up a lot less accepting of what you now have.  We are pretty conservative, and not very quick to change.

It has never been our way to subject anyone to a torrent of abuse. That would have been ludicrous, and it still is.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by David CO

[Eagledad]

On 5/17/2018 at 5:38 PM, David CO said:

Hi Barry,

I would be happy to answer any questions you might wish to pose to me. I am fully trained to teach Catholic catechism. I understand, however, that you might feel that I am somewhat biased (conservative), and that you might prefer to ask someone else. No offense will be taken if you don't take me up on my offer.

David

My apologies David.

Barry

[Eagledad]

On 5/17/2018 at 11:42 AM, Eagledad said:

I'm curious to learn what the Catholic teaching is on homosexuality?

Barry

Here is something interesting.

Pope's reported comment to a gay man may indicate a new level of acceptance of homosexuality

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html

Barry

 

[David CO]

29 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Here is something interesting.

Pope's reported comment to a gay man may indicate a new level of acceptance of homosexuality

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-chile-gay-20180520-story.html

Barry

 

We all find ourselves in that type of situation. We see someone who is hurting, and we want to say something to comfort him. I don't know if this indicates a new level of acceptance or not. I can say unequivocally that it doesn't change the catechism or the teachings of the church.

The Pope has also been reported to have said, to a young boy, that his dead dog is in heaven. Catholics don't believe that animals have a soul. I don't think the Pope's comment in any way changes this teaching.

We talked about these issues in my catechism training. We don't want to be heartless and insensitive to people who are hurting. We also don't want to disseminate false information. Some times it is a difficult tightrope to walk.

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by David CO

[ianwilkins]

On 5/17/2018 at 11:23 PM, David CO said:

I am told that people share about 95% percent of their DNA with lower life forms. A 5% difference may not seem like so much, mathematically, but 5% can make all the difference in the world.

That's evolution for you.