National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

[Eagledad]

23 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

I always thought the soul of the program was the volunteers at the unit and district level that made it work either because of or despite National and Council priorities and despite any political differences that volunteers may have with one another.

If the program has truly lost its soul, then that's a sad reflection on us, not on BSA corporate.  People can claim that it was the BSA that left them, not the other way around, all they want but the fact is the BSA has made many changes over its existence and has marched ahead because of the volunteers who refused to take their ball and go home but stayed and adapted. 

The soul of the program is the vision. Volunteers shape toward the program, not the other way around. Anyone remember the forum member Bobwhite? He preached that if the unit wasn't performing, then they weren't following the published BSA guidelines. Top companies are successful because they hire like-minded in employees who believe in the product and vision.

I was reading the different discussions on this forum the other day thinking how little we discussion operations anymore. Techniques for building the program toward developing character using the tools given by the BSA used to dominate this forum.

God is the last holdout for liberals. It won't be long. Without a moral cornerstone, there can be no foundation for developing character.

Barry

 

[prof]

2 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”

Keep on Scouting (whatever they call it)

This is one of the most profound things I have read in a very long time.

[mashmaster]

54 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

'A Scout is Reverent' from the BOR (and EBOR) is a pretty low, low hurdle these days. We had an Eagle who marched in and declared that he was an atheist and somehow managed to get signed off (I think his folks came pre-loaded legally). I was not there but I heard it was quite a scene. I think you can be a Druid, Wiccan, or Buddhist and get over the BSA requirement. I do think given National's spine in the face of public opinion the future of that 'G' falling is less on moral courage and more on marketing trends. Another very divisive issue. I did note at a recent High School graduation event a Senior proudly declared herself an atheist and  a growing minority at the school and about 20%-25& of the kids raised their hands. So yeah it is out there.

The problem is that this requirement is a slippery slope.  Atheism is probably the only thing that distinctly  differs from the law.  Unless BSA were to say you must be religion A and fulfill requirements 1,2, and 3 what does this requirement really mean?  We all know many Christians that either never go to church, or go twice a year, or even worse go often and the minute they leave church they don't follow the golden rules.

So in my mind, someone that is honest and declares being Atheist carries more weight than Christian (or others) that are completely fake.

[Saltface]

56 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

I always thought the soul of the program was the volunteers at the unit and district level that made it work either because of or despite National and Council priorities and despite any political differences that volunteers may have with one another.

This is true.

56 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

If the program has truly lost its soul, then that's a sad reflection on us, not on BSA corporate.  People can claim that it was the BSA that left them, not the other way around, all they want but the fact is the BSA has made many changes over its existence and has marched ahead because of the volunteers who refused to take their ball and go home but stayed and adapted. 

Other than membership policies, what changes has BSA made over the years that really made people question their relationship with the organization?

[Tampa Turtle]

19 minutes ago, prof said:

This is one of the most profound things I have read in a very long time.

Ya gotta thank Shakespeare and Lincoln for that one.

[walk in the woods]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900018074/mormons-to-drop-scouting-as-part-of-new-global-initiative.html

Here's the take from the Deseret News.  It looks like the target for recruiting girls is about 500,000 to break even.

Quote

Then in May 2017, the church announced that it would drop Scouting from its Young Men's programs for boys 14 through 17. The First Presidency said then that Scouting's Varsity and Venturing programs did not well serve LDS young men of those ages and that the change would allow youths and leaders to implement simplified programs that balanced "spiritual, social, physical and intellectual development goals for young men."

The move slashed the number of Mormon boys in Scouting from about 470,000 to an estimated 280,000 at the start of this year. To dull the impact of such a major loss of revenue, the church agreed to make the same annual lump sum payment to the BSA for the participation of its boys this year that it did in 2017.

It suggests 56000 LDS families contributed to FoS last year, 10% of councils will be heavily affected, Great Salt Lake will see market penetration drop from 50% of TaY to maybe 10-15%.

Quote

Utah impact

National and local Scout leaders said they will work to smooth the impact of what promises to be a dramatic decline in the number of LDS Scouts after 2020.

Griffin said Scouting has enjoyed a 50 percent market share in the Great Salt Lake Council, meaning that about 50 percent of eligible boys are Scouts in Salt Lake, Tooele, Summit and Davis counties.

"Most councils have 10-to-15 percent market share," Griffin said. "We expect our membership will drop down to those levels. We've been able to rely on the church for 105 years to be that delivery arm. Now we'll develop other ways like other areas."

Griffin admitted concern about finances and leadership manpower but said the council is sustainable. The National Council will dedicate resources and support to help transition the 10 percent of BSA councils that will be significantly affected by the LDS decision.

Griffin said church officials have assured him that LDS congregations will continue to support Friends of Scouting, the annual Scout fundraiser, for the rest of 2018 and 2019. This is a major source of funding. In 2016, for example, 56,000 LDS families contributed to the church's Friends of Scouting drive for the Utah National Parks Council.

 

[Jameson76]

6 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Here's the take from the Deseret News.  It looks like the target for recruiting girls is about 500,000 to break even.

So...BSA will need 10,000 NEW Scouts per state to break even from the LDS departure.  With 272 councils each one will need to add 1,838 new BS4G participants.  Also there will be a need for some yet undetermined number to backfill those that age out, normal attrition, and then to replace those who vote with their feet.

Assume there will be an overhead staffing reduction plan at BSA National / Regional to maintain the corporate cost ratios

[Eagle1993]

499,989 left to go...

My Pack has 11 girls now.

😀...............😥

 

[Saltface]

24 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Griffin admitted concern about finances and leadership manpower but said the council is sustainable

What does this even mean? My council is 80% LDS and I'm not even in Utah. There's no way three full councils will exist in Utah in 2020.

[David CO]

2 hours ago, CalicoPenn said:

I always thought the soul of the program was the volunteers at the unit and district level that made it work either because of or despite National and Council priorities and despite any political differences that volunteers may have with one another.

If the program has truly lost its soul, then that's a sad reflection on us, not on BSA corporate.  People can claim that it was the BSA that left them, not the other way around, all they want but the fact is the BSA has made many changes over its existence and has marched ahead because of the volunteers who refused to take their ball and go home but stayed and adapted. 

Talk about blaming the victim. 

[Eagle1993]

46 minutes ago, Saltface said:

What does this even mean? My council is 80% LDS and I'm not even in Utah. There's no way three full councils will exist in Utah in 2020.

I can’t imagine all councils surviving.  I would expect mergers at councils heavily impacted.  Bryan isn’t stating mergers but he is stating some councils will be impacted.

 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-lds-church-announcement/

“While most councils have some LDS membership, roughly 10 percent of councils have a significant population of LDS members. These councils may be affected more significantly by the LDS church’s decision.”

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

So...BSA will need 10,000 NEW Scouts per state to break even from the LDS departure.  With 272 councils each one will need to add 1,838 new BS4G participants.  Also there will be a need for some yet undetermined number to backfill those that age out, normal attrition, and then to replace those who vote with their feet.

Assume there will be an overhead staffing reduction plan at BSA National / Regional to maintain the corporate cost ratios

Looking at all the discussion of Family Scouting, adding girls may be just an intermediate step. IMO, National's long game plan is to switch from recruiting individual scouts to their whole families - all in the family would be on the books as members whether they participate or not, similar to the Y.  Increased headcount and revenue.

My $0.02

P.S. Our leaders may have lost their way but at the unit level, we are doing are best to faithfully delivering the program to the scouts we have.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

27 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I can’t imagine all councils surviving.  I would expect mergers at councils heavily impacted.  Bryan isn’t stating mergers but he is stating some councils will be impacted.

 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/05/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-lds-church-announcement/

“While most councils have some LDS membership, roughly 10 percent of councils have a significant population of LDS members. These councils may be affected more significantly by the LDS church’s decision.”

Salt Lake paper article a couple years back said LDS Scouts in Utah was 95%. The membership map will look like a neutron bomb went off there. In 2015 another article claimed it would be a $10 million annual hit to BSA.

[ParkMan]

Agreed - there surely will be mergers.

Makes me think the BSA had too many eggs in one basket.  Hopegully tbis will force them to try harder on recruiting and marketing.

[cgail]

Remember that retention is just as large a problem as recruiting.   How many Scouts have you had that fell off over the years?  In Cubs,  it's a large problem with varied reasons - but most boil down to if the Scout is having the most fun out of all his/her activities.

It falls on us as their leaders to offer an effective and enjoyable experience to keep them involved to the point where the Scouts recognize the importance of the program.