National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

[Jameson76]

21 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Do I detect sarcasm?

Yep...and some sadness

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

 

20 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Ironic comparison, because I was one who finished off my last Eagle-required merit badge at the end of December 1973 and had my EBOR and ECOH in early 1974.

Never expected that I'd be reliving that experience in such a literal way.

Same - Richard Nixon signed my Eagle certificate 😁

[gblotter]

1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

I merely make the assertion that the man who founded the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts would have likely created a single gender organization if he were starting it in 2018.

And I make the assertion that the man who found the Boy Scouts and the Girls Scouts would have likely kept them as separate organizations if he were starting them today because he had the wisdom to understand the inherent differences between boys and girls and the ways they learn differently.

Your speculation is just that.

 

 

[gblotter]

Just now, Jameson76 said:

Richard Nixon signed my Eagle certificate 😁

Love it. I show off my Nixon signature with a grin. The early 70s were such a weird period of history (including Scouting history).

[ParkMan]

2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

And I make the assertion that the man who found the Boy Scouts and the Girls Scouts would have likely kept them as separate organizations if he were starting them today because he had the wisdom to understand the inherent differences between boys and girls and the ways they learn differently.

Your speculation is just that.

 

 

And your speculation is no different.  So now we can stop claiming that it mattered what BP did in 1907.

[gblotter]

1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

So now we can stop claiming that it mattered what BP did in 1907.

It absolutely does matters what BP did in 1907. He is the founder with the vision we follow today.

However, it does not matter one bit what you or I speculate he would do in 2018.

[Jameson76]

1 minute ago, gblotter said:

Love it. I show off my Nixon signature with a grin. The early 70s were such a weird period of history (including Scouting history).

Urban Scouting...the great revamp of the 1970's, Boypower and Manpower and whatnot

If you get lost on a hike, ask a cop

The wonderful world of Skill Awards, Camping and Cooking MB were not required.  You could easily earn Eagle Scout and never camp, never start a fire, never leave your neighborhood.  In fact you could not even go outside

 

 

[ParkMan]

6 minutes ago, gblotter said:

It absolutely does matters what BP did in 1907. He is the founder with the vision we follow today.

However, it does not matter one bit what you or I speculate he would do in 2018.

It matters just as much.

You claim that: "BP's choice to have two separate groups was a thought out analysis of how by boys and girls learn"
is no different than my claim that: "BP's choice to have two separate groups was simply a bi-product of the times."

This is an important analysis because we live in 2018, not 1907.  So, understanding the context for the decision is important if we want to claim to continue to operate under his vision.  

I'd be willing to stipulate that we really cannot know what his motivation was in 1907.  But, it's a two way street.  

 

[gblotter]

11 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

The wonderful world of Skill Awards, Camping and Cooking MB were not required.  You could easily earn Eagle Scout and never camp, never start a fire, never leave your neighborhood.  In fact you could not even go outside

Which is why I, along with 2.5 million other Scouts, abandoned the program. No interest in "Urban Scouting".

Unfortunately, BSA does not have the luxury of surviving those kinds of membership loses today with this mistake.

(I'm fully expecting Surbaugh to resurrect that despised red beret with the new uniform changes.)

Edited May 14, 2018 by gblotter

[desertrat77]

Gblotter and Jameson, I envy you the Nixonian impact.  My card bears Jimmy Carter's signature.  Doesn't make quite the same impression. 
 

[desertrat77]

I crossed over in '74, just as the "Improved" Scouting Program was rolling.  Endured the red beret, the anemic scout handbook, and National's frantic attempt to hamstring the outdoor program.  Later in that august decade, Green Bar Bill wrote the new handbook and the BSA got a reprieve from the astounding lameness of ISP. 

That said, I still received an old-school scouting experience during those years.  My scoutmasters grit their teeth, shielded us from the more obnoxious elements of the ISP, and focused on traditional, outdoor-oriented scouting.  If I could turn back the clock, I'd go back and thank them.  I didn't realize at the time what they had done for us.

PS  The red beret worked pretty darn good as a pot holder on campouts.

Edited May 15, 2018 by desertrat77

[Oldscout448]

9 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

 

PS  The red beret worked pretty darn good as a pot holder on campouts.

and if you had two you could always play Capture the Flag

[gblotter]

8 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

PS  The red beret worked pretty darn good as a pot holder on campouts.

The red beret was so emasculating, but for some strange reason those darn Skill Awards repelled me most. In my mind, they seemed childish and redundant compared to merit badges. I earned a few Skill Awards along the way just by participating in my normal troop activities. I threw them all away - they meant nothing to me.

[desertrat77]

6 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

and if you had two you could always play Capture the Flag

Yes!  I'd forgotten about that...thank you!

[desertrat77]

6 minutes ago, gblotter said:

The red beret was so emasculating, but for some strange reason those darn Skill Awards repelled me most. In my mind, they seemed childish and redundant compared to merit badges. I earned a few Skill Awards along the way just by participating in my normal troop activities. I threw them all away - they meant nothing to me.

Absolutely.   Some scouts could manipulate the beret to make it look like special forces, but it was still just a red beret.  Most of us looked like a bunch of wandering poets, with the thing perched on our head any which way.

Skill awards:  I earned the bare minimum required.  Retired them as soon as I bought my Philmont leather belt.

[MikeS72]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

I'm fully expecting Surbaugh to resurrect that despised red beret with the new uniform changes.

Having been in troops on military bases for many years, we did indeed know how to make that beret look like Special Forces.  In fact, some of our Scout leaders were Special Forces.