YPT and emergencies

[Hawkwin]

How do you handle YPT requirements when they conflict with emergency situations?

You are 1.5 miles out on a 5 mile hike with your den and a scout is injured. There are just two leaders on the hike. What do you do?

If there are three leaders, what do you do?

[RememberSchiff]

First Aid is called that for a reason.

[Tampa Turtle]

8 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

How do you handle YPT requirements when they conflict with emergency situations?

You are 1.5 miles out on a 5 mile hike with your den and a scout is injured. There are just two leaders on the hike. What do you do?

If there are three leaders, what do you do?

Life over Liability. I can live with that.

I once was alone with a boy with a bone sticking out of his severed digit while the other adult leaders grabbed supplies and a truck for the hospital run. I was applying pressure and was not concerned with YPT though I did tell others what I did afterward. If I start getting THAT worried then scouts are not for me.

YMMV.

[Jameson76]

6 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

How do you handle YPT requirements when they conflict with emergency situations?

You are 1.5 miles out on a 5 mile hike with your den and a scout is injured. There are just two leaders on the hike. What do you do?

If there are three leaders, what do you do?

Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership

YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact.  In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead.  The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue.  

At least two adults are required on every BSA outing. During that outing, there should be no one-on-one contact between an adult and a youth. Parents and youth are advised to follow this and other Youth Protection policies for the overall safety of all involved.

But there might be moments when just one leader is present with two or more Scouts. (as noted in the first aid issue) That’s fine, as long as the situation doesn’t involve one adult and one youth.

[Hawkwin]

11 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership

YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact.  In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead.  The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue.

But the other leader and the rest of the den no longer has 2-deep leadership. Also, what does the leader and the buddy do when the other youth is evacuated? (assume parent arrives to take them to a medical facility) You are now again in a situation where the buddy and the leader may find themselves in 1 on 1 contact.  

 

[Hawkwin]

14 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Life over Liability. I can live with that.

That was my opinion as well, but I would like to get something affirmative on this. We have a den hike coming up and I would rather be safe than sorry.

[NealOnWheels]

I would not overthink it.  Emergencies tend to change the most well thought out plans.  Deal with the priorities.

[Tampa Turtle]

11 minutes ago, NealOnWheels said:

I would not overthink it.  Emergencies tend to change the most well thought out plans.  Deal with the priorities.

If you have enough folks then just ask the other adult to give you a hand when you need to do something. Or be visible (unless it will embarrass the child).

[Eagle94-A1]

I have been alone with Scouts for emergency reasons twice AND I WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN IF i CAN HELP IT! (Emphasis)

First time was transporting a Scout to the hospital. Nothing happened, and he got the treatment and came back to camp with no additional problems.

Second time was a week or two later and transporting another Scout to the hospital. While in the car, the Scout started going into shock and there was not a thing i could do but turn on the heater and talk to him to keep him conscious. THAT SCARED THE HECK OUT OF ME! He ended up being OK, but the shock did not help.

Last time I took a Scout to the hospital, I took another Scout, one of my sons, with me just in case he went into shock or had other issues.

30 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

That was my opinion as well, but I would like to get something affirmative on this. We have a den hike coming up and I would rather be safe than sorry.

If push comes to shove, take your daughter with you if you have to take someone to the hospital. If memory serves, she is a Webelos, and hopefully has First Responder/Readyman/Whatever the First Aid activity badge is now called. And if not, TEACH HER THAT ACTIVITY BADGE! (emphasis again) 

 

[Jameson76]

28 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Do not confuse YPT and Two Deep leadership

YPT designates (in this instance) no one on one contact.  In the case of an injured, but let us assume ambulatory Scout; one leader, the injured youth, and a buddy can return to the trailhead.  The other leader and the rest of the youth can continue.

But the other leader and the rest of the den no longer has 2-deep leadership. Also, what does the leader and the buddy do when the other youth is evacuated? (assume parent arrives to take them to a medical facility) You are now again in a situation where the buddy and the leader may find themselves in 1 on 1 contact.  

Two deep designates / means - At least two adults are required on every BSA outing.  There is no geographical encumbrance on that point.  Take the injury portion away, on an outing of 12 Scouts and 2 leaders, 6 want to go hike to the fire tower and 6 want to hike over to the lake and go fishing.  That is fine.  All are on the outing and there are two leaders

On the evacuated scout you can easily take injured and two Scouts so you have no one on one contact when you rejoin the main group.  

Now yes, then you may ask what happens if with the group coming back there is another injury what do you do, and who knows.  That is "what if" to the extreme and honestly if one wants to try and plan all through the multiple derivations and decision trees, may as well never leave the house

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

How do you handle YPT requirements when they conflict with emergency situations?

You are 1.5 miles out on a 5 mile hike with your den and a scout is injured. There are just two leaders on the hike. What do you do?

If there are three leaders, what do you do?

One leader, the hurt scout and an additional scout go for help. 

 

In the case of three leaders, I'd send two leaders and the injured scout back (possibly another scout as well). 

 

More than likely, we'd all go back, though. 

[T2Eagle]

I don't remember how explicit it was in the latest training, but the previous training was clear that matters of health and safety trump ypt guidelines when you have to choose between them.

A much more direct scenario for this would be: I'm walking down the road at summer camp with two of my scouts, we're on the way from one activity area to another.  Suddenly one of them becomes gravely ill and needs assistance, let's say CPR.  Assuming cell phone communication is unavailable, I would send one scout to go for help and I would stay and render aid.  Heck, let's make it maybe a little less dramatic and go with one scout with broken leg, I still send one scout for help and stay alone with the injured scout.

All YPT rules have a primary goal --- the protection of our scouts --- with a secondary goal of protecting us scouters.  So when confronted with choices, choose what is in the best interests of the youth we serve.

Edited May 15, 2018 by T2Eagle

[qwazse]

The two-deep serves a secondary purpose of enabling a couple of scouters to divide up responsibility. With at least another scout, one can

• care for the injured while the other mobilizes the rest of a troop to procure rescue. Or,
• provide transport for the injured while the other makes plans for extraction.

In our venturing YPT (back when it was face-to-face), we were strongly encouraged to bring four adults in wilderness scenarios where transport and/or extraction may extend overnight. Adherence to that and the typical LNT guideline of contingents no larger than 10 sometimes put us at an adult:youth ratio of 4:6.

Edited May 15, 2018 by qwazse