Scout BSA Uniform Survey (Girls)

[Gwaihir]

18 hours ago, swilliams said:

I have a background in fashion design and patternmaking.  Can I tell you....  there is nothing more aggravating than BSA uniforms - particularly the fit of the pants.  Is this my opportunity to rant a little? 

First, though, I hate that new shirt.  It's odd-looking and a side opening on a pocket is not a great idea.  I don't like the placket over the buttons.  It may look 'cleaner', but it makes fastening and unfastening the buttons harder.  The pocket on the pants looks too high, and I'd miss having the depth that the current cargo pockets have.  Unlike with other pants, I actually carry things in these pockets - cell phone, knife, wallet, sometimes a piece of trash picked up on the trail; all kind of things. Really not liking the roll-up part of the pants, either.  All that does is create a handy spot for dirt and pine needles to collect, and add bulk that could start chafing if you're on a long hike.

The Cub Scout pants are cut way too wide for any but the chubbiest of scouts, and at that young an age, most kids are not yet significantly overweight.  I've been working in a scout shop for the last three months, and we've only sold two pair of those pants.  It hardly seems worth the trouble to produce them. 

 

 

 

I feel like the entire uniform product line is cut for America's obesity.   I got a pair of youth 8 pants for my son, he looked like he was wearing pants cut for an adult.  they were gigantic. 

[Gwaihir]

Need more clarity... are these uniforms for boys and girls, or just girls? 

[Eagle1993]

18 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

where is the actual survey to take? thanks. 

It is only in person at various scout shops. My understanding is that National Supply plans to rotate these shirts around the country at various scout shops to get in person feedback.  

[numbersnerd]

Will preface this by saying I think the current styling of BSA uniforms is about the schlumpiest mess you'll see on a collection of youth and adults. I don't think there is anything more depressing than seeing a bunch of adults willing to devote their time and efforts in service and then making them don what poses as uniforms. It's the saddest sack of ---- collection of OD wrapped lumps when they get together. I think it   actively sucks out a measure of enthusiasm from anyone wearing them. I refuse to buy official pants and shorts because they fit so bad and if you happen to find a pair that fits, it's an anomaly. I sincerely wonder if each individual pair is made by a different manufacturer.

That said, this appears to be a turn for the worse. Even more non descript  wrappings with ill conceived "features". And designed to be untucked? So much for pride in the uniform and personal appearance. But then, if forced to wear those, that ship may have already sailed. 

Too bad they can't get Eddie Bauer or Columbia designers to help with design and Johnny Morris to help with marketing.

 

[Gwaihir]

1 hour ago, numbersnerd said:

Will preface this by saying I think the current styling of BSA uniforms is about the schlumpiest mess you'll see on a collection of youth and adults. I don't think there is anything more depressing than seeing a bunch of adults willing to devote their time and efforts in service and then making them don what poses as uniforms. It's the saddest sack of ---- collection of OD wrapped lumps when they get together. I think it   actively sucks out a measure of enthusiasm from anyone wearing them. I refuse to buy official pants and shorts because they fit so bad and if you happen to find a pair that fits, it's an anomaly. I sincerely wonder if each individual pair is made by a different manufacturer.

That said, this appears to be a turn for the worse. Even more non descript  wrappings with ill conceived "features". And designed to be untucked? So much for pride in the uniform and personal appearance. But then, if forced to wear those, that ship may have already sailed. 

Too bad they can't get Eddie Bauer or Columbia designers to help with design and Johnny Morris to help with marketing.

 

especially if this is a widely endorsed and celebrated change... you'd think getting a major outfitter involved would be easy and you could angle the historic nature to negotiate a fair cost. 

[The Latin Scot]

UGH! Those options are terrible! How are incoming ladies expected to correctly place their insignia when there are no standard pockets by which to judge placement? Are they going to re-write the guide to uniforms and insignia entirely? And on WHAT body are those hideous shirts supposed to be flattering? 

The BSA has a serious problem with sizing already, as all of you have already noted. I had to get my shirt custom tailored because my long wiry arms looked preposterous in the huge flapping sleeves of a YOUTH LARGE, which, mind you, was the only shirt with a torso size which fit decently on my trim shoulders. Luckily the re-fitting was a success and it looks okay on me now, but pants/shorts/whatever - those are all WAY too baggy on me, even with a waist size that fits. It's discrimination against slender folk like me I tell you! I am built like one of Tolkien's elves and there is no garment sold in the Scout Shops which appropriately accomodates my slim physique. It's a conspiracy I tell you! 

[FireStone]

On 5/14/2018 at 11:16 AM, Gwaihir said:

Why do I have a feeling BSA isn't going to be a uniformed organization in 5 years. 

I've thought that, quite often lately. Or we might be more like other scout organizations where the uniform is more akin to formal attire, and for general purposes it isn't required or even encouraged. 

Just look at all of the stock photos in the BSA Brand Center. Few of them show scouts in uniform anymore.

It's not all bad, though. I would actually welcome a middle-ground option, less Class A uniform wear but instead encourage more Class B with a neckerchief. I really like how most other groups do that, with a good size neckerchief and a loose knot tied at the bottom, worn over a t-shirt or sweatshirt. 

 

[Chris1]

You are welcome to wear a neckerchief with any t-shirt or other gear now. A current field shirt is not necessarily the best for outdoor field use ironically. Though better in some aspects to previous designs.  Most units, Camp staff, and NYLT that I know of around here use t-shirts or polo shirts during the days with the official field uniform (aka class A) used for evening meal and flag ceremonies.

I don't expect the uniform to completely go away. After all "uniform" is one of the 8 methods of Scouting. 

[Chris1]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:25 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

... Skirts are not practical in the field,... 

 I have to disagree with you about Skirts being impractical in the field. I am a guy and my utili-kilt is one of my favorites for hiking and field activity particularly in hot weather. No chaffing, cooler, more airflow, great freedom of movement.  As long as they have decent pockets they are great.  

I would love BSA to add a utilikilt to the uniform options, but I won't be holding my breath on that one. I know several scouters and outdoors people who wear kilts in the field regularly, and several who do long backpacking trips in kilts.

Time will tell if the skorts/skirts will be popular. 

[Gwaihir]

9 hours ago, FireStone said:

I've thought that, quite often lately. Or we might be more like other scout organizations where the uniform is more akin to formal attire, and for general purposes it isn't required or even encouraged. 

Just look at all of the stock photos in the BSA Brand Center. Few of them show scouts in uniform anymore.

It's not all bad, though. I would actually welcome a middle-ground option, less Class A uniform wear but instead encourage more Class B with a neckerchief. I really like how most other groups do that, with a good size neckerchief and a loose knot tied at the bottom, worn over a t-shirt or sweatshirt. 

 

Nothing advertises Scouting to the public and keeps Scouts in the community's eye more than scouts in uniform.  Otherwise it's just another group of kids.   Doing away with the uniform , heck even Going to middle ground with "class b" just makes us like any other youth group.  No thanks. 

 

"The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country." - BP

"Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I'll show you a poorly uniformed leader" - BP

It's an essential part of the game of scouting and quite frankly, the other countries are doing it wrong. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Gwaihir

[Eagle94-A1]

1) Chris1,  WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

2) While extremely comfortable, Kilts do have disadvantages. Even the Scouts from the 105th Glasgow Scout Troop I met will tell you that. Especially if worn in true Scottish style.

3)

22 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Nothing advertises Scouting to the public and keeps Scouts in the community's eye more than scouts in uniform.  Otherwise it's just another group of kids.   Doing away with the uniform , heck even Going to middle ground with "class b" just makes us like any other youth group.  No thanks. 

 

"The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country." - BP

"Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I'll show you a poorly uniformed leader" - BP

It's an essential part of the game of scouting and quite frankly, the other countries are doing it wrong. 

 Agree 110% I had a conversation with a cashier at Walmart once on the topic when she saw me in uniform after roundtable. Long short short, she lamented the fact that the onl,y time you see girl scouts is during cookie sales, and then they do not l;ook like Girls Scouts as she remembered from her day. 

[Treflienne]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Long short short, she lamented the fact that the onl,y time you see girl scouts is during cookie sales, and then they do not l;ook like Girls Scouts as she remembered from her day.

The Girl Scouts have gone down the path from practical uniform to (impractical) dress uniform to (today) no uniform at all.

The early uniforms were sturdy cotton, in a color that did not show dirt, and with bloomers to wear under the skirts so that the girls could move freely without worrying about immodesty.  (May not sound practical by today's standards, but was much better for active and outdoor activities than the then-fashionable clothes for girls.)

The uniforms stayed in sturdy fabric through the 1940s.

By the 1960's, they had changed to being dress uniforms.  Still uniform in appearance, (and recognizably similar in appearance to earlier uniforms), but of lightweight fabric and much less practical for active and outdoor activities than what the girls would have normally been wearing as play clothes.

In the 1970's GSUSA dropped the idea of a uniform having a uniform appearance.  It was now mix and match.  A junior girl scout could choose a forest green turtleneck OR a white (print) blouse, paired with shorts or trousers or a jumper, or with jumper over shorts, or with jumper over trousers.  Every girl looked different.  And totally unsuitable for active or outdoor use: fall down once and you had a gaping hole in the knee of the pants.

By the time I was a senior girl scout (early 1980s) our uniforms looked nothing like scout uniforms.  In fact, we were mistaken for being flight attendants!  And the uniform was unsuitable for any active outdoor activity.  My troop made our own "activity uniform".  We could buy the plaid blouse material by the yard, and made for ourselves neckers (large, square neckers) and wore them.  Ironically, we were more readily recognized as scouts/guides when wearing our completely unofficial neckers than when wearing our official uniform. (Part of that was that we were GSUSA but living in Europe.)

And today?  GSUSA has no uniforms for anyone grade 4 and higher.  Just a vest OR a sash (no uniformity here).  If one wants to look neat, (and few troops seem to encourage this) , one can wear the vest or sash with one's own white shirt and tan pants.  Girl Scout troops are barely identifiable as such by clothing, and look really sloppy even when identifiable.  And often they leave the vest/sashes behind when doing anything out-of-doors, because they are impractical.

Having a scout uniform that is recognizable as a scout uniform is among the things about BSA that is appealing to my daughter.  Sure hope BSA doesn't start walking down the path to no uniforms.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Treflienne
typo

[WisconsinMomma]

Nice Kilt!

I will say, I hate BSA pants.  I have women's pants, two pair in the tech fabric and one in the cotton and I hate them all.  I wear them because I wear the uniform, but I do not like wearing them.  The shirt is fine. 

I don't have a lot of opinions on the new uniforms, I hope they make more choices in olive for women's pants.  I will need a new shirt for BSA soon but may buy a secondhand shirt.

In other news, my youngest became a WEBELOS scout this week.  He wants to wear a tan shirt but has to wait one more year!  

[Eagle94-A1]

13 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Nice Kilt!

I will say, I hate BSA pants.  I have women's pants, two pair in the tech fabric and one in the cotton and I hate them all.  I wear them because I wear the uniform, but I do not like wearing them.  The shirt is fine. 

Wife HATES current uniform. When she was a WDL she wanted to wear her Venturing uniform since any gray pants or shorts would work. Since she could not wear it as a WDL, I got her a complete vintage 1950s Den Mother's uniform, complete to patches, tie, and hat.  But it is impractical in the field. She wore a pack t-shirt, hiking shorts and boots.

 

13 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

In other news, my youngest became a WEBELOS scout this week.  He wants to wear a tan shirt but has to wait one more year!  

OK, I know officially starting June 11 2018,  all Webelos are SUPPOSE to be in the tan and green uniform. Me personally, I'd stay in a "vintage" blue Webelos uniform until he completely out grows it, or crosses over into Scouts, BSA. A Scout is THRIFTY :)

[Hawkwin]

36 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

OK, I know officially starting June 11 2018,  all Webelos are SUPPOSE to be in the tan and green uniform. Me personally, I'd stay in a "vintage" blue Webelos uniform until he completely out grows it, or crosses over into Scouts, BSA. A Scout is THRIFTY

I moved my scouts over to tan ASAP as I saw it as a way to both differentiate them from cub scouts and as a way to better prepare them to be (Boy) Scouts.

But I am still thrifty; daughter now wears son's old tan shirt.