Deterring thoughts of discrimination w/girls?

[Jameson76]

9 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

 they need the bodies.

[walk in the woods]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Part of me thinks commissioners and executives should work with units to help coordinate this more.  

 

I sit in a commissioners meeting every month with family scouting as an agenda item.  It's a permanent item because the rules change every month.  I'd love to be able to help my pack navigate the issue but anything I say in May will be untrue in June.  For example, National made the name change announcement and also said the Cub program would officially open on June 11th.  I had the conversation with my leaders who also saw the announcement.  Three days later I'm told by my DE that our council isn't opening up enrollment until September, regardless of what was in the announcement and if you don't have a minimum of 5 girls you can't register any.

[Terasec]

On 5/10/2018 at 8:14 AM, David CO said:

I am not at all squeamish about BSA having separate units for boys and girls.  I just don't believe it is going to happen. Once these linked units are firmly established, BSA will announce that they no longer see any reason for separate units, and they will all be officially merged into co-ed units.

BSA is taking an incremental approach to changing over to co-ed scouting. It has no intention to keep the girl units permanently segregated.

Bsa scout camps are now coed 

so even having all boy pack you are forced to integrate at bsa camps

i have helped 2 girls through girl scouts

Am not squeamish at all

i am 100% against having girls in boy scouts

even having siblings at camp changes the dynamics of the group of boys

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

[Eagle94-A1]

23 minutes ago, Terasec said:

even having siblings at camp changes the dynamics of the group of boys

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

I wish more folks would realize this. We had a sibling at the meeting last nite running around and distracting folks with their soccer ball. Parents were no where in site.

[ParkMan]

37 minutes ago, Terasec said:

Bsa scout camps are now coed 

so even having all boy pack you are forced to integrate at bsa camps

i have helped 2 girls through girl scouts

Am not squeamish at all

i am 100% against having girls in boy scouts

even having siblings at camp changes the dynamics of the group of boys

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

The co-ed we cannot address.  In the short term, you can simply elect to have an all girl or all boy troop.  

Despite how people are interpreting the marketing, the Scout level (11-17 year olds) is not turning into a family camping club.  

Your troop can and should make clear the impact of siblings and parents.  The purpose of a Scout troop is to do Scouting - not have kids running wild.

[Oldscout448]

12 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

The co-ed we cannot address.  In the short term, you can simply elect to have an all girl or all boy troop.  short term is the operative word

Despite how people are interpreting the marketing, the Scout level (11-17 year olds) is not turning into a family camping club.  yet

Your troop can and should make clear the impact of siblings and parents.  The purpose of a Scout troop is to do Scouting - not have kids running wild.  Amen!

 

[shortridge]

9 hours ago, Terasec said:

Bsa scout camps are now coed 

so even having all boy pack you are forced to integrate at bsa camps

No unit is forced to integrate. Associate, yes; integrate, no.

Camps have been coed since the days of the old Exploring program, pre-Venturing. That’s nothing new.

9 hours ago, Terasec said:

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

So it’s been failing since 1936, when Den Mothers became a thing?

[Terasec]

7 hours ago, shortridge said:

No unit is forced to integrate. Associate, yes; integrate, no.

Camps have been coed since the days of the old Exploring program, pre-Venturing. That’s nothing new.

So it’s been failing since 1936, when Den Mothers became a thing?

Camps have been coed activities have not

even siblings had their iwn program at camp to keep them seperate From rank level activities

we never associated with venture/crew or other scout programs at council camp

even boy scouts interaction was limited in cub camp

they did not eat together and slept at their own camp

only assisted cubs wirh specific tasks like wood gathering for camp fire

as for 1936

that was a war time need

No need for such post war time

and den mothers were just that den mothers not leaders in charge of programming

scouts is now 90% arts and crafts

[ParkMan]

1 hour ago, Terasec said:

scouts is now 90% arts and crafts

It's really not.  A pack's or troop's program is what they make of it.  You want more outdoor and less crafts, you need to be part of a pack or troop that focuses on it.  If that doesn't work, then I would encourage you change it.

 

[FireStone]

1 hour ago, Terasec said:

scouts is now 90% arts and crafts

 

I'm wrapping up my year as a Tiger DL and I can that our year was pretty much the inverse of what you describe. I can think of maybe 2 den meetings that were heavy on arts and crafts. The rest of the year we were playing games, learning scout skills, we did 3 service projects, went camping 3 times, went on multiple fishing, hiking, and other day-trips, etc. 

Maybe your program is 90% arts and crafts, but if that's the case, that's a unit issue, not a Scouts issue. 

[shortridge]

@Terasec, trying to parse out what you’re saying is a little difficult. You don’t seem to want any girls anywhere at a camp that they might come in contact with your Cub Scout pack, and the same for female leaders. Is that accurate?

[NJCubScouter]

2 hours ago, Terasec said:

as for 1936

that was a war time need

No need for such post war time

and den mothers were just that den mothers not leaders in charge of programming

1936 was not wartime unless you were in Spain, Ethiopia, arguably China, arguably Palestine, maybe a few other places.  I do not think the U.S. had any military forces in combat anywhere, and probably relatively few land forces outside the U.S.  The Den Mother position was not created due to a shortage of men.   It was probably designated as "Den Mother" because it was the expectation that den meetings would be held after school, and dad was at work, and mom was "working in the home," so she was available. (Things have changed, obviously.)  I would say that by the time I was a Cub Scout (mid-60s) Den Mother had become a genuine leadership position.

[fred johnson]

19 hours ago, Terasec said:

even having siblings at camp changes the dynamics of the group of boys

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

I agree with Eagle94-A1 in his comments.  I'm not at all against girls in scouts.  But the issue Terasec points out is not to do with girls.  It is with reducing the program.  

We need to keep our scouts safe.  We need to help them have a good experience.  BUT, we don't save them from every issue and absolutely not from every challenge.  I don't like calling it the "mommy and me" approach, but there is something to this.  Scouting's value is teaching the scouts independence, responsibility and that they can handle way more than they think they can.  If the parent or another adult keeps saving the scout, the value of the program is lost. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by fred johnson

[ParkMan]

3 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

I agree with Eagle94-A1 in his comments.  I'm not at all against girls in scouts.  But the issue Terasec points out is not to do with girls.  It is with reducing the program.  

We need to keep our scouts safe.  We need to help them have a good experience.  BUT, we don't save them from every issue and absolutely not from every challenge.  I don't like calling it the "mommy and me" approach, but there is something to this.  Scouting's value is teaching the scouts independence, responsibility and that they can handle way more than they think they can.  If the parent or another adult keeps saving the scout, the value of the program is lost. 

While I think national could most certainly take a more firm stand here, I continue to see this as a unit issue.  If a pack or troop has a bunch of parents running around saving the kids - that's a problem to get addressed. 

I've never seen any training from national that says - "let the parents do it". All the materials I see encourage us to have the scouts do this stuff.  If it's not happening it's because folks are ignoring that.

[Eagle94-A1]

27 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

While I think national could most certainly take a more firm stand here, I continue to see this as a unit issue.  If a pack or troop has a bunch of parents running around saving the kids - that's a problem to get addressed. 

I've never seen any training from national that says - "let the parents do it". All the materials I see encourage us to have the scouts do this stuff.  If it's not happening it's because folks are ignoring that.

Problem is national is NOT discouraging it IMHO. As has been posted on several other threads by others, BSA does NOT provide adequate information or training on the Patrol Method. I beleive Hawken and Latin Scot both commented on the lack of information on the Patrol Method and Boy Scouts while they served as Webelos Den Leaders. I admit I have not gone through the current online training. But from what I am hearing and seeing, Cub Scouts and their parents and leaders for the most are not prepared for Boy Scouts. The few units I see that truly prepare their Webelos are those that either have old school Scouters as WDLs and CMs, those who went through the program in which they were transitioned, or have WDLs trained by old school Scouters.

And I do not see the term "Family Scouting" for coed Scouting helping. Far from it.  I am seeing my troop encouraging the family concept, to the point that parents and siblings are camping and attending meetings in my troop. All under the rubic of "Family Scouting."