LDS CHURCH ANNOUNCES INDEPENDENT ACTIVITY PROGRAMS BEGINNING 2020

[ParkMan]

28 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Possible, but unlikely. Under that scenario, our troop would need to find a new Scoutmaster. I will be ready to exit BSA on 12/31/19. I'm quite disillusioned over BSA's girl decision. This new Family Scouting is not for me.

Then help them find a new Scoutmaster before you step down.  I'm stepping down as Committee Chair, but I'm helping through the search.

As I see it, you've got a Troop with boys who want to be Scouts.  In my book that's the most important requirement for a troop.  The rest is all mechanics.  Volunteers can be recruited, a CO can be lined up, camping equipment can be found.

We had a troop in our district lose their CO a few years ago.  They went down the street and regrouped.  Did they lose some boys who were members of the original CO - you bet. But it all worked out.

In my book these National decisions are important, but still not nearly as important as the simple wish of boys to be Scouts.  

[RememberSchiff]

Please stay on topic. Thank you. Previous content moved here

 

[The Latin Scot]

On 5/21/2018 at 11:34 AM, ParkMan said:

Fair enough.  Just struck me that the LDS decision was likely in the works for some time now.  A decision last year to admit girls  didn't seem to match up sequence wise with the LDS decision.  But, perhaps I'm wrong.

I do understand where you're coming from and think it's unfortunate for the Scouts that we loose good people because of this.  Who the BSA admits is less important to me than the core mission of bringing Scouting to the youth in the program.  Do I agree with the recent decisions - sure.  But, had they not happened, I'd still be a volunteer.  I understand that for you these decisions overshadow the core program.  Though we see it differently, I won't try to persuade you.  I tried that last week with some others to no avail.  I'll just simply leave it at that it's sad we'll lost you.

 

I've been thinking a lot about this over the past few days. I do indeed see things differently, though not in the ways many seem to think. 

I know this may not be the thread for this, but it is in response to a comment made in this thread, so I knew not where else to post it - moderators may remove it to a more appropriate thread without objection from me if that better serves the integrity of this topic.

First of all, people are trying to "sequence" events, trying to determine which came first - a church move to exit Scouting, or incoming policy changes which the church found objectionable. I think the question is at this point irrelevant. Asking how we got to this point is no longer what matters - the question is, where are we now, and where will that lead us?

For the church, growth continues throughout the world, in many lands at astronomical rates - Latin America, Western Africa, the Philippines - all are seeing incredible growth, and such continues in all other nations and domestically as well. It makes sense that we would want to unify all our members, and that starts with teaching the children (something every Scouter will appreciate). By unifying our programs, we are unifying youth all over the world in a shared program that will build harmony of faith, ideals, fellowship, understanding, and morality. Scouting has been a wonderful asset in helping the church understand the essentials of building successful foundations in the growth of young men - now we are equiped to create an equally effective program, but centered on our own unchanged and unchanging moral beliefs.

For Scouting, those core moral beliefs are no longer clear. Unlike the church, which has a clear leadership structure based on one shared doctrinal foundation, Scouting must share the moral and philosophical beliefs of many hundreds of religions and ideologies - and far more so, it can be affected by popular opinion and partisan agendas. When the moral fiber of its society is srong, Scouting itself is all the stronger for it, because its leadership is inherently built out of an amalgamation of shared ideals. But when that society becomes divisive, demanding changes to the core values which Scouting once clung to, Scouting itself does not have the internal structural integrity required to withstand the pressure - in other words, Scouting does not have the inherent authority to repulse outside influences forever.

The Boy Scouts of America has held out far longer than most other world Scouting organizations (Scouting UK's recent push to make its Scouts "employable" reflects drastically a complete abandonment of Baden-Powell's purpose of building men of character and not material ambition). For over 100 years, the BSA still believed that boys needed a special place of their own, a place where their unique character, temperment, energy and zeal for life could find a safe, healthy outlet - a place where they could commune with each other, with nature, and with God. Now, its internal structure, which was originally designed to openly allow invested, caring adults to share a guiding hand in protecting that environment, has been hijacked and usupred by conspiring men and women determined to use the BSA and its proud heritage as a platform from which to push their own selfish and destructive societal agendas - and the young men of this country are their primary targets. 

Now, it seems, they are winning greater and greater victories. Now girls are coming in, crowding out the safe space boys should have enjoyed by signing up for a program that wasn't designed for them, and which simply will not serve them like it serves boys. And so eventually changes will be made, and boys will slowly lose all the benefits that Scouting was meant to offer them. They will become marginalized in their own program. They will eventually be taught in Scouting that immoral behaviors should be tolerated, even celebrated. And soon this organization will no longer be the Boy Scouts of America. They will cling to that name for a while, till the advantages of that name are used up, and eventually it too is dropped. But already, that orginal program of over one hundred years, is almost gone. It may become a fun program, it may become an instructive program - but will not be the same program. That program, the Boy Scouts of America, the one founded by Baden-Powell, Beard, Seton, West, Hillcourt - that program does not exist anymore. The images you see in the Rockwell paintings, of boys in the woods and on the streets, in churches, communities, shelters, hospitals, backyards and living rooms, boys camping, fishing, serving, helping, caring - they are of an organization I believe will soon no longer exist.

And so. Whereas before I felt that I was sad to leave,  I realize now that to say Scouting is losing me would be a falsehood. Not that losing one volunteer would make any difference, but that I - that our nation - we are losing Scouting. The quote above stated "Who the BSA admits is less important to me than the core mission of bringing Scouting to the youth in the program." And this is just the tragedy. Scouting will no longer be brought to them, because Scouting is not simply the activities, the achievements, the adventures. It is the boys themselves who for 108 years have been blessed and protected within this inspired program. And now they no longer have it; it belongs now not to them, but to outside powers making changes that the boys cannot control, and cannot stop; and being young, they do not realize fully what is being stolen from them, nor will they be given the power to rescue it themselves. 

So yes, at the end of next year I will no longer be a part of Scouting. I will continue to deliver the program will all my heart, mind, and strength until then, within my unit, as the walls crash around me. But I will be sad (albeit not surprised) to find that I have stayed in my place, while Scouting has moved to a different world altogether. These decisions have not "overshadowed the core program." I believe they reject it entirely, but will inevitably use it only as long as it is useful to them. I only pray for the sake of the boys who remain that such will last for a small time longer at least. In many units with dedicated, inspired and visionary leaders, it may last much longer. I believe there will be many pockets of successful, true Scouting scattered all over the nation, and I look forward to hearing their stories of success against the waves of compelled change. But I will have other battles to fight then, and other programs to nurture, and other flocks to tend. I hope however that I and those brave units will be able to depend on each other for support and encouragement whenever we may we call upon each other.

My prayer is that those future alliances will ever hold strong against whatever troubles may come.

Edited May 26, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[gblotter]

@The Latin Scot It’s a strange time for us LDS Scouters, with such a range of emotions.

I’ve been involved in Scouting for most of my life as a boy and now an adult leader. Thomas S. Monson (recent LDS President and Silver Buffalo) famously said: “Decisions determine destiny”. BSA has shown us that decisions can also detour destiny.

I’ve never been divorced, but I wonder if there are steps of acceptance and withdrawal that may apply here as we transition and move on.

I’m glad we will have the next 18 months to work through this (both personally and organizationally). Especially for the most dedicated of LDS Scouters, there will be a lot to work through.

Edited May 27, 2018 by gblotter

[Chadamus]

@The Latin Scot do you foresee personal emotional struggles and conflicts over the course of the next 18 months as you deliver the program to your unit? I ask because as of right now your church has decided it will part ways with said program because of decisions the BSA has already made, as opposed to any decisions the BSA could make in the next 18 months. Personally, I would find it hard to be "all in" for a program that my church has already deemed unfit. What will keep you going?

[gblotter]

3 hours ago, Chadamus said:

What will keep you going?

I am not speaking for @The Latin Scot ...

I was ready to quit in February 2019, but my love for these boys will keep me going over the next 18 months. I have helped each of our Scouts craft an advancement plan, but it is their responsibility to execute on that plan. As Scoutmaster, I am in a support role to help them complete a journey started. Their motivation will be my motivation, but without question I will be done with BSA on 12/31/19.

Edited May 28, 2018 by gblotter

[The Latin Scot]

6 hours ago, Chadamus said:

@The Latin Scot do you foresee personal emotional struggles and conflicts over the course of the next 18 months as you deliver the program to your unit? I ask because as of right now your church has decided it will part ways with said program because of decisions the BSA has already made, as opposed to any decisions the BSA could make in the next 18 months. Personally, I would find it hard to be "all in" for a program that my church has already deemed unfit. What will keep you going?

First of all, I am always 100% behind every decision the Church makes, because I sincerely believe that whatever decision our leaders make, comes from the Lord. So, that said, I am excited to see what the future will bring after these next 18 months are over, because I know that Providence never takes anything away without given us something better in return.

So what keeps me all in? Simple.

The boys.

These kids have 18 months left in Scouting. At that age, it seems like a MUCH longer time than it seems to us. And it's my duty, my opportunity to see that the last 18 months of Scouting in the Church are the most memorable, the most exciting, the most affecting months they have ever had. I want them to think back with fondness and gratitude to the years of Scouting they had, to the adventures they shared, and the lessons they learned. I want them to accomplish great things, and when they are old and gray, I want Scouting to be one of the dearest memories of their youth. 

That means I have no right, no time, no reason to selfishly indulge in whatever I may be tempted to feel regarding the sadness or nostalgia of this loss. It isn't about me. These boys have so much to learn and gain from my time with them, and to taint it with my personal sentiments would be unfair to them and a diservice to myself - they are not the only ones who have a lot to gain from this last leg of the journey. I myself learn from them daily; they are a part of my own growth and learning, and if I let myself be distracted by what-ifs and if-onlys, I too would lose valuable opportunities and blessings. 

Our last prophet President Thomas S. Monson, himself one of Scouting's greatest champions, loved to recite the following quote:

"For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been.'" - John Greenleaf Whittier

My job is to deliver the fullest, the happiest, the most complete, the BEST program I can down to the last minute of our involvement. And all it takes to feel the motivation, to feel the desire, to feel the joy of the adventure, is to look into the faces of these fine young men and to love them. I can do anything if it's based on that love. It's not a personal stuggle. It's a personal opportunity, and I am thankful for every last minute of it.  

[RememberSchiff]

Local LDS Scouters Tasked to Stay Fully Engaged

from Moapa Valley Progress, June 6

“We have been instructed, and we are asking all of you now, to remain a fully engaged partner in the Scouting programs for the coming nineteen months,” said President Chuck Burt, a member of the LDS Logandale Stake Presidency. “We are approaching a transition period where it will be up to each of you to set the tone in your units and in the community. We hope that it will be a unified tone.”

In a brief instruction session, Logandale Stake High Council member Elwin Brown, who is also the Commissioner of the BSA Anasazi District, laid out a three-point plan for the transition.

His first point was a challenge to actually ramp up the Scouting programs over the next 19 months. “Don’t slack off or drop the ball,” Brown told the leaders. “Let’s don’t stop until the commitment is over.”
Brown instructed Scout leaders to encourage boys to achieve their next rank advancements, attend BSA-operated camps and continue in full activity rather than allowing them to just relax from the program.

Brown’s second point was for the members of the Stake to continue financial support of the Scouting program. This was specifically in regards to the annual council-wide Friends of Scouting fundraiser.
“Our challenge now is to send a final message of thanks to the Boy Scouts, and to the Las Vegas Area Council, over the next 19 months,” Brown said. “Let’s make it the largest Friends of Scouting donation ever during the 2018 and 2019 years. So that, when we leave, it will be funded for as long as possible.”

Brown’s third point was to address concerns that, after the shift occurs, the Boy Scout program might die out in the Moapa Valley community.
“I feel like it is on my shoulders to see that it doesn’t,” Brown said. “There are too many young men who still will need to earn their Eagle or receive the other benefits from this program. I don’t want to pull the rug out from under them or deprive them of that experience.”

More details at source link

http://mvprogress.com/2018/06/06/local-lds-scouters-tasked-to-stay-fully-engaged/

[The Latin Scot]

That is EXACTLY the kind of attitude we want to promote! Thank you for this @RememberSchiff! 

[walk in the woods]

Video recently posted on the Commissioner's facebook page 

 

[mashmaster]

Interesting.  I will be interested to see how many join other troops in the area.  In our area, the LDS troops operate much differently than the non-LDS troops.

[T2Eagle]

I find it interesting that he speaks about a desire to have his grandsons become Eagle Scouts, but seems to preclude the possibility of his granddaughters following that trail.

For the LDS members on the forum.  When scouting is no longer the Church's youth program for young men and recedes to the same position in an LDS family that say a sports team, 4H, or similar extracurricular activity would occupy, would there be a church prohibition against a young female member of the LDS  joining scouting?  If so what would be the reasoning?

[TMSM]

4 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

I find it interesting that he speaks about a desire to have his grandsons become Eagle Scouts, but seems to preclude the possibility of his granddaughters following that trail.

 

He doesn't have any granddaughters 

[Saltface]

1 minute ago, T2Eagle said:

I find it interesting that he speaks about a desire to have his grandsons become Eagle Scouts, but seems to preclude the possibility of his granddaughters following that trail.

For the LDS members on the forum.  When scouting is no longer the Church's youth program for young men and recedes to the same position in an LDS family that say a sports team, 4H, or similar extracurricular activity would occupy, would there be a church prohibition against a young female member of the LDS  joining scouting?  If so what would be the reasoning?

There's no prohibition. I know a few LDS girls that are already in Cub Scouts (just not packs chartered by LDS congregations).

[Saltface]

22 minutes ago, TMSM said:

He doesn't have any granddaughters 

No, both Dahlquist and Holland have granddaughters.