From National: Official Name

[Hawkwin]

10 hours ago, jamskinner said:

i believe they are more comfortable with their own gender. Is this always the case?  No. I do believe it is the case the majority of the time.  I must admit though that I don’t have any research data on the subject though. I will try to see if any is available and if so supports or contradicts my view. 

Just my opinion, but my perception is that we all have different versions of our authentic self that we share with different people. My clients get a different authentic me than my wife does, my kids get a different self, my male friends get a different self, and my female friends get a different self.

When I was in high school, my three closest friends my senior year were all girls. It was easier to share my authentic self (a guy from a broken home who changed states and schools often - changed high school four times in two different states). I had male friends but I always felt that we had to convey some sense of bravado around each other that was fake or otherwise not authentic. I could be vulnerable around my female friends without being judged or ridiculed.

There probably is a comfort factor out there based on similarities, but I have to wonder if that comfort factor is based on legit reasons. Mixed genders might cause someone to feel a lack of comfort the same way mixed skin color groups could make someone uncomfortable. Is that lack of comfort based on something real or is it perception based on a lack of knowledge and experience with the "other?" I admit I don't know but my assumption is the later. I do know that male Rangers have said as much after women graduated from Ranger School. I've also heard the same from members of my old Airborne Infantry unit that was all male but now welcomes women.

Regardless of how coed Scouts BSA becomes, it is my hope that an organization that teaches both genders about ethics, character, and a love of the outdoors results in significant change for future generations. Having women grow up with that same pride and experience can only be a good thing for our future adult men too.

[CalicoPenn]

10 hours ago, JoeBob said:

Here's a nice summary of how we got here:

https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/boy-scouts-announce-plans-to-drop-the-word-boy/

"The Boy Scouts used to be in the business of teaching boys how to become young men — to keep themselves physically strong and morally straight.

But somewhere along the way – Boy Scout leaders lost their moral compass and tumbled into the deep abyss of political correctness.

I don’t think there’s a merit badge for that."

 

 

 

 

This is just a summary of how conservatives think the world is blowing up because the Boy Scouts are allowing girls to join.

They were wrong about the world ending when women and blacks were given the right to vote.  They were wrong about the world ending when gays could officially be married.

They are wrong about this too.

[Jameson76]

1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Man, my wife said this was EXACTLY what was going to happen when I first mentioned it. She is right again.

I hate that.

My wife just wonders how long I will continue with the troop......

[CalicoPenn]

9 hours ago, cocomax said:

Well, I can tell you one thing after reading the news today and polls and comment sections and twitter, facebook, minds, youtube and gab . . .

The Boy Scouts was a really well loved group by most of America,  I read so many wonderful things about the Boy Scouts, many men that were glad they were Boy Scouts as boys. Many moms that had nice things to say about the Boy Scouts as well as the Girl Scouts.

The general public is taking the end of Boy Scouts pretty hard, as they say you do not realize how much something meant to you until it is gone.

The Boy Scouts will be missed, they had a good run, 108 years.

 

The majority of Americans just don't give a rats patootie about this - and that's always been the way of Americans - on just about every issue.  I doubt if most of the people commenting in newspapers, on twitter, on facebook, etc. actually knows anything about the organization other than its name.  Our population is over 300 million yet our membership numbers are about 2.5 million - that's what, about 0.8% of the population?  Yeah - no one really cares.

[CalicoPenn]

11 hours ago, jamskinner said:

  As a scout are you going to pee in front of other boys?  Most likely.  Are you going to pee in front of girls.  Heck no.

I believe it might be a violation of YPT for boys to pee in front of other boys, let alone in front of girls.  So the proper answer to "As a Scout" would be "heck no".

[Tampa Turtle]

5 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

My wife just wonders how long I will continue with the troop......

Mine also. Trying to decide the next act.

[CalicoPenn]

16 hours ago, ham_solo said:

 Most likely the best thing we can do for the girls is find whatever girls troop gets formed in our district or whatever and send the girls that way, just as we have in the past sent them to those couple of venture crews we had in the area before.

I see girl scouts as experimental, and not every troop needs to do it, heck there are not even enough girls for that.  The most natural thing will be for a couple of troops in each district/council to be the 'girl' troops for now and to send them all there.

Sounds great on paper but consider what might happen 3 or 4 years down the road when the Pack's Webelos, who are now used to being around girl cub scouts all decide to move to the Scout Troop that is linked with the Scout Troop the girls join - what will that do to your membership numbers?

[CalicoPenn]

11 hours ago, jamskinner said:

   Supposably, the Boy Scouts are not going to change the program.   If that is the case then why are they waiting until next year before adding girls.  They have to make changes of course.

They are waiting until next year so that some of the first female scouts to come into the Scouts BSA program will be crossing over from the Cub Scout program - that's how they've always said they envisioned the timeline.

I've asked this numerous times - and no one has ever been able to answer - exactly how do you see the program itself (not the YPT stuff, not the logistics - the actual program - rank requirements, merit badges, camping/hiking/summer camp program) changing?  What rank requirements will change?  Will lashing be changed to macramé?  Merit badges on cosmetology?  All the girls I've talked to (current Venturers) have said they wanted to join the Boy Scouts because of the program that the BSA already has - they wouldn't want anything to change program wise.

[Jameson76]

Actually got some feedback from some of our Boy Scouts yesterday.  They were not enthusiastic about the name change.  They also felt the "new motto" (their words not mine) was meh, very cubby oriented

 

What I found interesting is that 

1) they were aware of it

2) they took the time to give some feedback

 

This is from the core group of actual participants

[SB_Eagle]

21 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

This is just a summary of how conservatives think the world is blowing up because the Boy Scouts are allowing girls to join.

They were wrong about the world ending when women and blacks were given the right to vote.  They were wrong about the world ending when gays could officially be married.

They are wrong about this too.

You are completely out of line with this post.  Conservatives supported the right to vote for women and blacks amongst strong democratic opposition.  Democrats still only pretend to care about all women and minorities just so far as to gain votes, and as long as they don't have their own opinions against the party line.

This is about preserving a program dedicated to helping boys, and we have just told boys in the BSA that they are no longer a priority and that they are undeserving of their own program. 

[Tampa Turtle]

12 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Actually got some feedback from some of our Boy Scouts yesterday.  They were not enthusiastic about the name change.  They also felt the "new motto" (their words not mine) was meh, very cubby oriented

 

What I found interesting is that 

1) they were aware of it

2) they took the time to give some feedback

 

This is from the core group of actual participants

Yes I found the older boys were quite aware of the social media but quite muddied by the official communications. Even among the ones who agree with the changes there was some resentment that existing Scouts are not being asked just future scouts. 

[Oldscout448]

33 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Mine also. Trying to decide the next act.

this

[Jameson76]

3 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

They are waiting until next year so that some of the first female scouts to come into the Scouts BSA program will be crossing over from the Cub Scout program - that's how they've always said they envisioned the timeline.

I've asked this numerous times - and no one has ever been able to answer - exactly how do you see the program itself (not the YPT stuff, not the logistics - the actual program - rank requirements, merit badges, camping/hiking/summer camp program) changing?  What rank requirements will change?  Will lashing be changed to macramé?  Merit badges on cosmetology?  All the girls I've talked to (current Venturers) have said they wanted to join the Boy Scouts because of the program that the BSA already has - they wouldn't want anything to change program wise.

Just as you have stated and advised to let's see and hope for the best, many of us are troubled about what may come.   

Most of us (right or wrong) are concerned about the unforeseen consequences of the Girls into Cub Scout and Boy Scouts decision. Over time I suspect there will be more impacting than many hope.  Many may find this shocking, but boys are not girls. The unknown is that the program will change in some undetermined manner.   BSA National has clearly demonstrated a propensity to move with the social winds.

BSA National and the Exec Board have not been good stewards of the program at a national level.   Yes the nuts and bolts at the unit level still work, but many overreaching decisions are not well planned long term.  Specifically the continuing cash sink at Summit, the continued growth of the non-unit facing professionals, the funds and public capital spent to defend membership policies only to immediately change those, the membership grab with the addition of Lions (oh my yes let's do 6 years of Cubs), the emphasis and cost of non traditional In School scouting (yes good efforts but does it take the view off of core BSA programs), the raising of the membership fee 38% to cover insurance shortfalls, the unfunded pension liabilities that were allowed, the current emphasis moving away from serving youth to serving "families", etc etc

What changes may come (and they surely will) will possibly evolve to a program that is less attractive to boys and not attractive enough to girls.  The road to the "coveted" (not my words) Eagle Scout award is long and has many potholes.  It takes a well formed village to assist a Boy Scout to attain that rank.  Looking down the the road in about 5 years, when not enough girls are becoming Eagles, will we  hear about the “disparate impact” unfair requirements are having?  No one will be pleased. 

Membership may continue to decline.  I hope I’m wrong. 

[ianwilkins]

13 hours ago, jamskinner said:

 As for not being required to have girls in your troop look at what has happened everywhere else girls have been included into scouts. Are they allowed to be boy only now?   I maybe totally wrong. Time will tell. 

As I'm elsewhere, I'll pick this up...

UK was boys only, except for Venture Scouts.

If I remember correctly (it was a while ago, and I was a Venture leader, so was not having my playpen remodelled)...

HQ said (I paraphrase) "we're going co-ed, if that freaks you out, stay boy only for now"

Then when "for now" ran out, they said "you're all co-ed" (more or less)

What they didn't do is say "yar, you can have boy troop here, and a girl troop thar, and that's cool. Okay, that was last year, now go coed. Love and kisses, HQ"

Fingers crossed your HQ aren't that crazy.

The objections and people taking their bat and ball home, all seems very familiar, and equally saddens me. A scout troop I knew, the male leaders were great, dynamic, did cool stuff, the scouts enjoyed it...they sat down and talked about the change, and decided to walk away. That made me sad. How can it not make me sad that people who were doing something they enjoyed, that helped kids, feel the need to walk away because of things outwith their control? All that knowledge and experience...poof! Gone. I see history repeating itself, and it still makes me sad. Yes, different leaders stepped up, girls joined, the world didn't end, but still...

It's a hard road ahead. That much I can predict. Good luck.

Edited May 3, 2018 by ianwilkins

[qwazse]

34 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

They are waiting until next year so that some of the first female scouts to come into the Scouts BSA program will be crossing over from the Cub Scout program - that's how they've always said they envisioned the timeline.

...  Will lashing be changed to macramé?  Merit badges on cosmetology?  All the girls I've talked to (current Venturers) have said they wanted to join the Boy Scouts because of the program that the BSA already has - they wouldn't want anything to change program wise.

Technically, in pioneering, the splices and mats (like the turkshead flattened out) fall under macramé. So we're already there. Hashtag parachord bracelet.