From National: Official Name

[ham_solo]

Should have copied the "UK Scouts" that they switched to when they went co-ed, and just changed to "US Scouts".

Because we all know that eventually BSA will need change their name to "Scouts of America", "Scouts America", like Scouts Canada, or something similar to the UK as "Scouting Association of the US" , or "US Scouting Association" or whatever anyway in the future, and that will now cause yet another name change for the scouting program again later.

Shows a bit of a lack of forward thinking to me.

Oh well, I also see in my crystal ball a future change to the program to move to what all the rest of the world scouting organization members have done already as far as program ages with a more natural progression of either the UK system where they have cubs(7-10)->Scouts(10-14)->Explorers(14-18)->ScoutNetwork(18-25) OR the way it used to be in the UK and still is in lots of places such as Canada with cubs(7-10)->scouts(11-14)->venture scouts(15-17)->rover scouts(18-26), which will eliminate ages with the current Venturing program that conflict with the Scout program and give them more definition to what they fit in.

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ham_solo

[Saltface]

2 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

Simple - give the girl program an entirely separate name, and don't touch the boys program. Or better yet! - forget including the ladies at all, as per the past 108 years of Boy Scouting. I certainly will not allow thrashing public opinion to compell me to bend to their agenda; girls and boys are different, and I will not be cowed into offering up my assent. I think the entire thing is a bad move, from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts, and I will continue to refer to the program as Boy Scouts, since fortunately my CO will not be accepting girls into its programming. But I pity the CO's, councils, districts and units that are going to feel so inordinately pressured to do so. 

A separate girl program run by BSA, allowed to cater to the needs and wants of girls (and possibly meander in a different direction than boy scouts)? Hear, hear?

[The Latin Scot]

 

3 minutes ago, ham_solo said:

Should have copied the "UK Scouts" that they switched to when they went co-ed, and just changed to "US Scouts".

Actually that would have been worse in my eyes; at least by using the term Scout BSA, the word "boy" is still there, even if in abbreviated form. But it's a bend to public opinion that may well break the spine of our principles the further we extend it.

[The Latin Scot]

10 minutes ago, Saltface said:

A separate girl program run by BSA, allowed to cater to the needs and wants of girls (and possibly meander in a different direction than boy scouts)? Hear, hear?

That's exactly what I THOUGHT we were going to offer, which I would have actually supported much more willingly! But as Viceroy Gunray remarked at the Battle of Theed, "this is too close." To waltz in, change the name of the 108 year-old Boy Scout program, and just drop in the ladyfolk, instead of the "new, separate girl's program" that was initially promised, is frankly an affront to all of the volunteers that have been holding out for a sensible initiative that would have protected their interests while still making room for expansion. They have reached the point where they are openly ignoring what the volunteers they have want, just to curry favor with a demographic of volunteers they clearly prefer but don't yet have. I am appalled by this change, but it is going to come back to bite them. Which is an awful shame, because the program itself has proven time and again that it WORKS - if you let it. They just can't seem to stop meddling with Baden-Powell's vision, and eventually, those who can no longer recognize the vision in the program will abandon it. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[ham_solo]

> "new, separate girl's program" that was initially promised is frankly an affront

Or it could actually be that national has actually heard from all those people who were actually planning on doing the girls program which kept saying, that

a) they will never find enough leaders to staff an entire other girls troop,

b) most of us forming it will be leaders from the boys troop anyway with a few additional female leaders added

and c) it will just be a separate troop only on paper to begin with because we can't be in two places at once

So slowly national will probably have to admit that it is going to be really one program, with separate patrols about as far as it will most likely go, pretty much like the cubs.  It was pretty obvious the original separate program scheme national had was sorta half-baked, especially when they came out with that whole 'linked-committees' stuff.

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by ham_solo

[The Latin Scot]

I imagine that is precisely how it will go. Which is why I am glad I will have no part in it; thank goodness CO's are allowed to choose how they will proceed so that those who don't want to get involved in this mess can at least continue on their merry way largely unaffected. I will never have to deal with girls in our program. But again and certainly, my heart goes out to those who feel similarly, but don't have the guaranteed protection of their CO's preserving their interests as I know mine will. Such a mess ...

Edited May 2, 2018 by The Latin Scot

[ham_solo]

9 minutes ago, The Latin Scot said:

I imagine that is precisely how it will go. Which is why I am glad I will have no part in it; thank goodness CO's are allowed to choose how they will proceed so that those who don't want to get involved in this mess can at least continue on their merry way largely unaffected. I will never have to deal with girls in our program. But again and certainly, my heart goes out to those who feel similarly, but don't have the guaranteed protection of their CO's preserving their interests as I know mine will. Such a mess ...

I have a sit-down meeting with my CO next week and hope to get/set some direction.   My own position as SM, and the current position of the other leaders (at least the ASMs and CC) as well as the parents in the Troop I have talked to, right now are not interested in pursuing a girls program and will stick with being a boys only Troop.   

Our sister Pack with the CO, will probably have girls I think but I have not confirmed it with the brand new Cub master.  They are closely affiliated not only with our CO(church), but also with the neighborhood elementary school where they have all their meetings so I am guessing they will get lots of push for girls to join next recruitment nite at the elementary school.  Most likely the best thing we can do for the girls is find whatever girls troop gets formed in our district or whatever and send the girls that way, just as we have in the past sent them to those couple of venture crews we had in the area before.

I see girl scouts as experimental, and not every troop needs to do it, heck there are not even enough girls for that.  The most natural thing will be for a couple of troops in each district/council to be the 'girl' troops for now and to send them all there.

Edited May 2, 2018 by ham_solo

[UncleP]

YouTube Commentary on change:

The attached link is to a YouTube commentator I get in my feed who just commented on the name change, and she makes some interesting points.  She is originally from Slovenia, and not the United States, so she can come at things from a slightly different angle.  I am presenting this as "food for thought":

 

[Thunderbird]

It makes me sad that younger boys will now never get to be Boy Scouts.  

[skeptic]

Do not understand your reasoning.  The overall name remains Boy Scouts of America, and they will still be scouts.  Way too much unneeded concerns and over reacting to this whole thing.  Just work the program for all the youth involved.  Who cares it they are called scouts or boy scouts?  Call them boy scouts if that fits them and makes you comfortable.  

 

[jamskinner]

So the "There are no plans to change our name at this time" lasted about 7 months.  What else is going to change in the next 6 or 7?

 

[desertrat77]

Too bad I don't fit in my old late '70s shirt.  Only one letter off!  

 

 

[jamskinner]

19 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Do not understand your reasoning.  The overall name remains Boy Scouts of America, and they will still be scouts.  Way too much unneeded concerns and over reacting to this whole thing.  Just work the program for all the youth involved.  Who cares it they are called scouts or boy scouts?  Call them boy scouts if that fits them and makes you comfortable.  

 

Who cares?  Apparently they do.  Feel free to dismiss other peoples opinions.

[FireStone]

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

It makes me sad that younger boys will now never get to be Boy Scouts.  

My son will be a Scout, like I was in the 80s and 90s, at least in how I referred to myself, how my parents and friends referred to us, etc. We were "scouts", our leaders called us "scouts", they addressed us, instructed us, woke us up, yelled at us, got us in line, as "scouts" ("Scouts, gather 'round," "Scouts line up!" "Scouts, attention," "Scouts, rise and shine!"). 

I don't care if officially he'll never be a "Boy Scout". The name is the least important part of the program for me. All that matters is what he becomes as a result of going through it. 

[desertrat77]

This change almost happened over four decades ago.  For a variety of reasons, it didn't.  I remember the debate.  Of course there was no internet, but around campfires and letters to Pedro at Boy's Life, there was plenty of discussion.

Regardless of where one might stand, I think it's important to keep in mind that our new scouts are not werewolves.  Nor meth heads.  Nor supernatural evil entities who are plotting the demise of the BSA. 

Let's remember they are girls.  Peoples' daughters.  They deserve respect, and the same opportunities as the boys.

PS 

Some declare:  "Then the GSA should change and offer high adventure etc."

Answer:  Go to Pizza Hut and demand a double cheeseburger.  Note their response.

Edited May 3, 2018 by desertrat77