Rapid Advancement

[scoutmastertroop194]

Hello,

I am a SM for a Troop of 30 boys. I have a Scout, 12 years old, who was just turned down for advancement to Life by the BOR. They cite lack of maturity and demonstration of leadership abilities. I agree with them. I have asked him to slow down and enjoy the journey, but he and his Mother do not seem to understand that it is the journey and not the speed at which you travel, that is important.

 

Any thoughts?

 

SMT194

 

[dancinfox]

In my mindset I agree with you and the BOR, but if the Scout has done everything for the advancement and has held a position of responsibily, then he should be awarded the rank. We can't change or make up new requirements for rank advancement. It does not say, demonstrate leadership abilities, it says hold a positon of responsibilty during the period from your last rank for a certain period of time ie:4 months from 1st. class to star, 6 months from star to life, etc. If you as scoutmaster allowed th

[scoutmastertroop194]

In response to dancinfox: I agree w/ the BOR but I followed the rules and sent him to them. Do I go back to the BOR and ask them to reconsider? I certainly don't want to alienate them. I would rather pursuade the Scout to relax and enjoy the journey. Perhaps I'm looking for resources or ideas to sway his thinking of becoming Eagle before 13.

[Herms]

Good job on slowing down the boy. I think Mom needs to take a step back and see that it is not the advancement that is important, but what the boy is learning along the way.

 

Maybe a way to channel the boys (and moms) enthusiasm for a while is to get the boy interested in his particular religious emblem and/or entice her with starting a Hornaday Award level, which even fewer scouts ever achieve.

 

Additionally, I tend to agree with dancinfox, however, there are requirements for "Demonstrate scout spirit" which is kind of ambiguous and open to interpretation. How can a boy show the Scout spirit of a Star scout (which should be a higher standard than a 1st Class) after only being in scouts for 1 year?

 

Im not saying its not impossible. Our troops SPL is only 14, and was a Life at 13. He is the SPL, voted that way over other older scouts (15-17) because he is a leader. He sets the meeting agenda, runs the meetings and is going up to Brownsea 22 in June as an instructor; a true leader, so it is possible. Hmmm.

 

[Herms]

No, I would not go back to the BOR committee to have them reconsider. They have done their job and that is their decision. That is their purpose, like the checks-and-balances of our government.

 

Maybe have him get started on some of the tougher merit badges. Place him in a greater position of authority, like PL, where he has patrol meetings and outings to plan so he can start to develop leadership skills. You don't want to dampen his enthusiasm, but it sounds from your email like Mom is the pusher. Maybe get mom more involved as well, like secretary or treasure or ASM or so that she sees what scouting is about and has the health of the whole Troop as a focus, as well as just her son.

 

[LovetoCamp]

What's wrong with a 12 year old in over-drive? He's met all the requirements, merit badges, length of time in a position of responsibility, service hours, but is not passed because he lacks maturity and the demonstration of leadership ability. If qualified counselors and his Scoutmaster have signed the blue cards, and he's had his Scoutmaster conference for First Class and Star, and all of a sudden, he's failed for two items that are not part of the advancement requirements, that just doesn't seem fair to me. I don't think I'd sit still for a kid not passing a BOR for requirements that aren't there. What's wrong with motivation?

[LovetoCamp]

I just loved the story of the home schooled boys who used all the Merit Badges as part of their education. Maybe the kid just really enjoys completing Merit Badges. There's nothing I enjoy more than working with a youth on a Mission. Hops, Hops are you listening???

[Bob White]

ScoutmasterTroop194, you invited any thoughts, so here are mine.

 

Your committee, specifically your advancement chair, needs to get trained properly. They were wrong to withhold the rank based on conditions that are not requirements of the BSA to advance in rank. They were wrong to turn the scout away without siting specific BSA requirements that they determined were not met, and for not giving the scout specific ways to meet the requirement in order to be approved for advancement.

 

If the scout were to appeal the board's decision, any appealate board set by the council would pass the scout if they have any understanding of the advancement policies. If they failed to do so, and the scout appealed to national, he would be immediately passed based on the facts you presented in your post.

 

Dancinfox, you mistated the advancement requirement for leadership. There is no advancement requirement that says "hold a positon of responsibilty". The requirement is to "serve actively in a leadership position." "Serve actively " and "hold a position" are two entire different things.

 

What actively serve means is based on conditions agreed to in advance by the Scout and the Scoutmaster or another adult leader.

 

scoutmasterTroop194, setting and achieving goals is not a negative attribute for a scout aged boy to have and he should not be punished for having them. Forget about slowing the scout down. Your job is to fire him up not cool him off. Forget about mom, she is not your responsibility and it is not your role to determine how she should parent her son. Lead the Scouting program, follow the advancement policies.

 

You have every reason to go back to the Advancement chair and say "we messed up, we didn't follow the rules of the program. We did not do service to this scout." He deserves to be held to the requirements of the BSA not the requirements of the errant committee members who messed up his board of review.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[LovetoCamp]

That's what I was trying to say....

[Greeneagle5]

SMT194,

What do you tell this Scout when he finds another Troop, or just quits out of frustration and disappointment ? If he has earned the rank by meeting all BSA requirements, he deserves his Life. My son, age 13 years, 8 months, just completed his Council Eagle BOR (and passed). He was awarded his Life Scout award when he was only 12.

Where does it say a Scout must be 14 before he can receive his Life award ?

I agree with BW, Advancement Chair needs further training.

Greeneagle5(This message has been edited by Greeneagle5)

[scoutmastertroop194]

Thank you all for your input. Some of it seems very sound and some seems questionable. But I asked and you helped.

 

Thanks

[Eamonn]

It's late and I'm too lazy to do the math. I would need to check the time requirements. I think I remember someone did this a little while back. I think it was OGE??

As luck would have it I spent tonight sitting on an Eagle Scout BOR. In fact there were seven Scouts. As a rule I try and worm my way out of sitting on BOR. However tonight the Scouts were an outstanding group. A couple were already 18 and the youngest was 15.

Sure the 18 year old Lads were more at ease and displayed more maturity.But the 15 year old "Performed" better then the 17 year olds. But maturity isn't a requirement.

Bob White is on the money. If the Lad has done the requirements you have to go back to the Board and get them up to speed with how the program works. Nothing to do with what Mom wants or doesn't want.

We used to have a really nice fellow who posted in these forums, he was a 13 year old Eagle Scout. Now he is a 39 year old Eagle Scout with a good number of years service working for the BSA. I wonder what might have happened if someone or some group tried to slow him down.

There is nothing wrong with offering this young Lad other things to do as long as he choses to do them. If however he has his goals set and he has set his sights on advancing - More power to him.

You have to go back to the board and set them straight and do as soon as possible.

Eamonn

[acco40]

Be careful with age! I have a boy in our troop who is 10 years old and won't turn 11 until December. He could earn Life at 12 but he would have been in Scouts for almost two years! Plenty of time to earn Life rank.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but maturity is not a requirement for any rank.

 

I have no beef with the "serve actively in a leadership position" requirement as stated by BW (after all it is in the book in black and white) but I have a different interpretation than BW. Just like the debate on "what is active?", I feel that active means registered. Therefore my interpretation of serve actively in a leadership position" is the same as holding that position as a registered Scout. Now, show scout spirit is an entirely different matter.

[dan]

scoutmastertroop194

Will you inform the scout and his mom that they can appeal this decision, through the council, than through national?

 

I remember at least 3 different times that this has been discussed here, each time the council or national has sided with the scout.

 

 

[Bob White]

Acco40,

Thank you for agreeing that the book does have the requirements explained right there in black and white.

 

Page 169 defines active as "you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures." This is not about just having a heart beat and being registered. If that is all there were to it how could the scout grow, practice and develop? Such an interpretation does little justice to the scout or the program he is supposed to be helping to lead.

 

Every requirement in advancement requires the scout to "DO" something. The leadership requirement in Star, Life, and Eagle is no different.